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As I understand it, all of these features are not features that people really like, they are features that 'drive engagement' in that horrible UX A/B testing so

by zwkrt 4y ago

As I understand it, all of these features are not features that people really like, they are features that 'drive engagement' in that horrible UX A/B testing sort of way. The basic tenet is that if you can increase the anxiety of the user they will spend more time checking the app. If I am messaging someone and see some blinking dots, I will stay in the app until they message back. Otherwise I might use the messaging app as an asynchronous tool and not waste all of my time in it.

autoexec 4y ago
It's not just the apps doing it. I've seen people pressuring others to respond immediately to everything and I've seen that expectation causing very clear anxiety. It's way too much pressure on top of every other day to day demand. I can see how apps have been designed to promote that kind of behavior, but how did they end up getting us to demand it from each other? I missed the memo. I've decided that if failing to obsessively check your phone and taking longer than a few minutes to respond to texts, social media posts, and status updates is "rude" and "socially unacceptable" then I'm fine with being outright obnoxious, but I know people who feel that doing that would cost them relationships and status and it looks like they're probably right. I don't remember any massive campaign to convince people that imposing that standard on others is fine, but maybe we need one to let people know that they're allowed to put their phone down for a few hours and set sane boundaries with their friends and employers.
- vladvasiliu 4y ago
  > I can see how apps have been designed to promote that kind of behavior, but how did they end up getting us to demand it from each other? I missed the memo. I think it's just an extension of how things were. To me, this is the online version of people dropping by your desk with a "real quick question". Heck, even e-mail, which is overtly asynchronous, has some people expecting answers "quickly".
  - bdefore 4y ago
    Ah, 'Real quick' and 'Quick question'. If you suffer from saying either of these two phrases, ever, know that I think less of you when you do. It's aggressive, dismissive, and presumptuous. Usually patently false. Please stop. I don't remember anyone saying this a decade ago, because you'd come across as the boss from Office Space.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
      > I don't remember anyone saying this a decade ago, because you'd come across as the boss from Office Space. I mean, if nobody did anything that made them come across as Bill Lumbergh, then I don't see why Bill Lumbergh would have been written as a character.
- bdefore 4y ago
  I've definitely faded out of connection with folks easier by behaving asynchronously to messages. I'm also not on social networks, so you'll need to Signal/SMS/email me. Sometimes I'll bring up the Deep Work book and that I believe strongly that constant distraction is unhealthy to the mind. To perhaps the majority of Americans, this behavior renders me untrustworthy and forgettable. Our expectations as a culture (US) on voyeurism and response time have shifted dramatically in this regard since the popularization of the iPhone. What's most surprising is so many people are unaware that I haven't changed in this regard. They have.
ethanwillis 4y ago
This is one of many reasons that I've been implementing my own chat client.
kqr 4y ago
Slightly off-topic, but I started thinking "Wait, how do you measure the effectiveness of your communication platform?" It's an interesting question because when communication is effective, there's not much of it, at least relative to the information transmitted. However, you can't just optimise for "not much communication" because that could mean the opposite: your system is so bad that it's not being used at all. So either you have to find a way to measure the amount of information transmitted (and compare it to the effort expended in doing so) or... something else?

by zwkrt 4y ago

autoexec 4y ago

It's not just the apps doing it. I've seen people pressuring others to respond immediately to everything and I've seen that expectation causing very clear anxiety. It's way too much pressure on top of every other day to day demand. I can see how apps have been designed to promote that kind of behavior, but how did they end up getting us to demand it from each other? I missed the memo. I've decided that if failing to obsessively check your phone and taking longer than a few minutes to respond to texts, social media posts, and status updates is "rude" and "socially unacceptable" then I'm fine with being outright obnoxious, but I know people who feel that doing that would cost them relationships and status and it looks like they're probably right. I don't remember any massive campaign to convince people that imposing that standard on others is fine, but maybe we need one to let people know that they're allowed to put their phone down for a few hours and set sane boundaries with their friends and employers.

vladvasiliu 4y ago
> I can see how apps have been designed to promote that kind of behavior, but how did they end up getting us to demand it from each other? I missed the memo. I think it's just an extension of how things were. To me, this is the online version of people dropping by your desk with a "real quick question". Heck, even e-mail, which is overtly asynchronous, has some people expecting answers "quickly".
- bdefore 4y ago
  Ah, 'Real quick' and 'Quick question'. If you suffer from saying either of these two phrases, ever, know that I think less of you when you do. It's aggressive, dismissive, and presumptuous. Usually patently false. Please stop. I don't remember anyone saying this a decade ago, because you'd come across as the boss from Office Space.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
    > I don't remember anyone saying this a decade ago, because you'd come across as the boss from Office Space. I mean, if nobody did anything that made them come across as Bill Lumbergh, then I don't see why Bill Lumbergh would have been written as a character.
bdefore 4y ago
I've definitely faded out of connection with folks easier by behaving asynchronously to messages. I'm also not on social networks, so you'll need to Signal/SMS/email me. Sometimes I'll bring up the Deep Work book and that I believe strongly that constant distraction is unhealthy to the mind. To perhaps the majority of Americans, this behavior renders me untrustworthy and forgettable. Our expectations as a culture (US) on voyeurism and response time have shifted dramatically in this regard since the popularization of the iPhone. What's most surprising is so many people are unaware that I haven't changed in this regard. They have.

ethanwillis 4y ago

This is one of many reasons that I've been implementing my own chat client.

kqr 4y ago

Slightly off-topic, but I started thinking "Wait, how do you measure the effectiveness of your communication platform?" It's an interesting question because when communication is effective, there's not much of it, at least relative to the information transmitted. However, you can't just optimise for "not much communication" because that could mean the opposite: your system is so bad that it's not being used at all. So either you have to find a way to measure the amount of information transmitted (and compare it to the effort expended in doing so) or... something else?