8 ms·

For a related application of this concept, highly recommend The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas, by Ursula LeGuin (10 min read). http://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com

For a related application of this concept, highly recommend The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas, by Ursula LeGuin (10 min read). http://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com/f/Omelas.pdf http://shsdavisapes.pbworks.com/f/Omelas.pdf

Sophistifunk 4y ago
God I hate drivel like this. There's no insight to be found here. These people can only exist in fiction and have no information with which to adjust the bearing on our moral compasses, which have evolved to function only in a universe where effects have causes.
routerl 4y ago
Great recommendation, and has the same moral premise as Snowpiercer (for a more recent take on this concept).
sonofhans 4y ago
What a nice recommendation in this context! This is a great story. My first encounter with it was LeGuin herself reading it as a guest in a PSU science fiction class, 25 years ago.
intrepidhero 4y ago
That was beautiful and poinant, typical of Le Guin. Thank you. I read once about a young man who wanted to give away everything he had and go live with the poor and destitute. His uncle told him it would be much more compassionate if he got a job, made alot of money and have that away. I've thought about that alot. His uncle wasn't wrong. If we want to improve humanity as a whole we need alot more people working hard making a lot of money to improve things for everyone. But if no one gives everything away and goes to live in poverty... Something good is lost. Someone down thread mentioned the obvious solution to the trolley problem being saving more lives. I agree, and also, someone has got to rail against the injustice of whole trolley situation to begin with. Maybe what I'm trying to say is ethical utility can be good, and we should strain to be better. Just my random thoughts after reading above.
- slothtrop 4y ago
  - shuntress 4y ago
    I think you are missing the point... "Give away what you can" is obviously the optimal middle ground between "give away nothing" and "give away everything".
    - renewiltord 4y ago
      Personally, I aspire to be as philanthropic as Bill Gates. Everything past my first billion, I shall share.
      - Arete314159 4y ago
        I used to really look up to him. But he chose to hang out with a convicted child sex abuser, so now I really question whether somebody with, at the very least, extremely poor judgement and empathy should be leading philanthropic missions. I'd rather just have the gov't tax him and have us vote on how to use that money (I understand that doesn't always work in reality, but at least it works in theory, whereas a guy who hangs out with sex traffickers is not somebody I want talking about how to help 'women in poverty in the third world').
    - slothtrop 4y ago
      You can give away everything, and it certainly was the point - it's unambiguous. The word "everything" is there. There's always a deliberate conflation between want and need. If an action like that has any value, it can't be in the utilitarian sense. It's monastic. And you can decide whether that "purifies your soul" or whatever else, but it's quite a contrivance to suggest it could help others more than funding charity, or better yet voting for progressive policies.
- hydrok9 4y ago
  *poignant

Sophistifunk 4y ago

God I hate drivel like this. There's no insight to be found here. These people can only exist in fiction and have no information with which to adjust the bearing on our moral compasses, which have evolved to function only in a universe where effects have causes.

routerl 4y ago

Great recommendation, and has the same moral premise as Snowpiercer (for a more recent take on this concept).

sonofhans 4y ago

What a nice recommendation in this context! This is a great story. My first encounter with it was LeGuin herself reading it as a guest in a PSU science fiction class, 25 years ago.

intrepidhero 4y ago

That was beautiful and poinant, typical of Le Guin. Thank you. I read once about a young man who wanted to give away everything he had and go live with the poor and destitute. His uncle told him it would be much more compassionate if he got a job, made alot of money and have that away. I've thought about that alot. His uncle wasn't wrong. If we want to improve humanity as a whole we need alot more people working hard making a lot of money to improve things for everyone. But if no one gives everything away and goes to live in poverty... Something good is lost. Someone down thread mentioned the obvious solution to the trolley problem being saving more lives. I agree, and also, someone has got to rail against the injustice of whole trolley situation to begin with. Maybe what I'm trying to say is ethical utility can be good, and we should strain to be better. Just my random thoughts after reading above.

slothtrop 4y ago
- shuntress 4y ago
  I think you are missing the point... "Give away what you can" is obviously the optimal middle ground between "give away nothing" and "give away everything".
  - renewiltord 4y ago
    Personally, I aspire to be as philanthropic as Bill Gates. Everything past my first billion, I shall share.
    - Arete314159 4y ago
      I used to really look up to him. But he chose to hang out with a convicted child sex abuser, so now I really question whether somebody with, at the very least, extremely poor judgement and empathy should be leading philanthropic missions. I'd rather just have the gov't tax him and have us vote on how to use that money (I understand that doesn't always work in reality, but at least it works in theory, whereas a guy who hangs out with sex traffickers is not somebody I want talking about how to help 'women in poverty in the third world').
  - slothtrop 4y ago
    You can give away everything, and it certainly was the point - it's unambiguous. The word "everything" is there. There's always a deliberate conflation between want and need. If an action like that has any value, it can't be in the utilitarian sense. It's monastic. And you can decide whether that "purifies your soul" or whatever else, but it's quite a contrivance to suggest it could help others more than funding charity, or better yet voting for progressive policies.
hydrok9 4y ago
*poignant