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Oregon did the same, back in 2020. It hasn’t gone very well. Some key problems: 1.) Dealers have learned to take advantage of the personal use amount protectio

Oregon did the same, back in 2020. It hasn’t gone very well. Some key problems: 1.) Dealers have learned to take advantage of the personal use amount protection by keeping small amounts on their person and a stash nearby. 2.) Several gangs from larger West Coast cities have moved here to expand their territory. We’ve had a big uptick in shootings in the past few years, and a lot of them have been due to this. There was an inciting incident in which a prominent member was killed at a memorial service, which resulted in a back and forth retaliation war that killed a lot of people. 3.) Related to #1 and #2, these gangs have learned that the homeless community is both an ideal customer and an ideal base of operations. Dealers often set up shop in a tent in the larger encampments, or in an RV nearby. This has made the meth and fentanyl problem amongst that community much worse. 4.) It’s too early to judge, but so far it’s looking like the rate at which addicts who are offered resources to help them actually accept that help is very low. When this issue was presented as a ballot measure, it was described as following Portugal’s model. However, our implementation is missing a key ingredient: consequences. Although Portugal did decriminalize drugs, they don’t just give people a pamphlet about where to get help and send them on their way. Instead they have a series of interventions, managed by doctors and social workers, that impose increasing penalties as a person’s addiction becomes more harmful to the community, and they don’t permit drug use in public. Lacking these features, the net effect of Oregon’s decriminalization measure has been a big increase in public drug use and not much else.

pmoriarty 4y ago
"1.) Dealers have learned to take advantage of the personal use amount protection by keeping small amounts on their person and a stash nearby." This is not a problem for me, as I believe drugs should be legal, and neither users nor dealer should be penalized. On points 2 and 3, regarding drug gang violence: This is a problem with the half-way measure of decriminalization as opposed to full legalization. When drugs are fully legal and manufacturing/selling them is legal then there'll be no shootings over drug turf any more than Phizer and Merk shoot each other over the sale of Viagra. "4.) It’s too early to judge, but so far it’s looking like the rate at which addicts who are offered resources to help them actually accept that help is very low." What "help" are you talking about? Grown adults whose lives are absolutely miserable often turn to drugs because it's the one source of pleasure, even ecstasy that they have in their life -- the drugs are so intensely fantastic that they eclipse nearly everything else they've ever experienced, to a degree non-drug users can't even imagine.... and then someone offers to take that away so they can go back to their miserable lives with no hope of escape? Why wouldn't they refuse?
- swearwolf 4y ago
  I get the moral for total decriminalization. I’m just here to tell you that implementing them in policy here in Oregon has significantly worsened the material conditions for the people who live here, which is not something a lot of us imagined (or were told) would happen.
throwaway0a5e 4y ago
>2.) Several gangs from larger West Coast cities have moved here to expand their territory. We’ve had a big uptick in shootings in the past few years, and a lot of them have been due to this. There was an inciting incident in which a prominent member was killed at a memorial service, which resulted in a back and forth retaliation war that killed a lot of people. If you'd have legalized dealing you wouldn't have the violence. Drug trafficking and dealing is only violent because they can't use state violence (via the courts) to settle their business disputes.

pmoriarty 4y ago

"1.) Dealers have learned to take advantage of the personal use amount protection by keeping small amounts on their person and a stash nearby." This is not a problem for me, as I believe drugs should be legal, and neither users nor dealer should be penalized. On points 2 and 3, regarding drug gang violence: This is a problem with the half-way measure of decriminalization as opposed to full legalization. When drugs are fully legal and manufacturing/selling them is legal then there'll be no shootings over drug turf any more than Phizer and Merk shoot each other over the sale of Viagra. "4.) It’s too early to judge, but so far it’s looking like the rate at which addicts who are offered resources to help them actually accept that help is very low." What "help" are you talking about? Grown adults whose lives are absolutely miserable often turn to drugs because it's the one source of pleasure, even ecstasy that they have in their life -- the drugs are so intensely fantastic that they eclipse nearly everything else they've ever experienced, to a degree non-drug users can't even imagine.... and then someone offers to take that away so they can go back to their miserable lives with no hope of escape? Why wouldn't they refuse?

swearwolf 4y ago
I get the moral for total decriminalization. I’m just here to tell you that implementing them in policy here in Oregon has significantly worsened the material conditions for the people who live here, which is not something a lot of us imagined (or were told) would happen.

throwaway0a5e 4y ago

>2.) Several gangs from larger West Coast cities have moved here to expand their territory. We’ve had a big uptick in shootings in the past few years, and a lot of them have been due to this. There was an inciting incident in which a prominent member was killed at a memorial service, which resulted in a back and forth retaliation war that killed a lot of people. If you'd have legalized dealing you wouldn't have the violence. Drug trafficking and dealing is only violent because they can't use state violence (via the courts) to settle their business disputes.