4 ms·

> oligarchs Can Musk be considered such, considering his antagonistic relationship with current establishment? His acquisition of Twitter could be seen as his

by exo762 4y ago

> oligarchs Can Musk be considered such, considering his antagonistic relationship with current establishment? His acquisition of Twitter could be seen as his first move into politics realm.

matthewdgreen 4y ago
The "current establishment" of the US comprises two major political parties that switch control back and forth (and sometimes control different parts of the US government simultaneously, as seems likely will occur in 2023.) I see no evidence that Musk is picking a fight with both parties, just the one that is currently disfavored to retain control in the next Congressional elections.
turtledove 4y ago
His first move into politics? His platform (even when he wasn't an antagonistic asshole) was political - climate change, species survival, deregulation.
greenthrow 4y ago
The fact that he doesn't like the current administration does not exempt him from being an oligarch.
gkoberger 4y ago
Tesla/SpaceX/etc have gotten a good number of tax breaks and government contracts.
dagmx 4y ago
Oligarchs don't need to work with the establishment. I'd argue in many cases they exist by subverting the establishment.
- walkhour 4y ago
  Who do you have in mind? I can't think of a techno oligarch that hasn't pledged to the current establishment. However you feel about the Biden laptop stories, how many of these oligarchs allowed its spread? I think you're kidding yourself if you think oligarchs work against the establishment, but for some reason it's a pretty common view; that of fighting the more powerful, when really that's you.
lmeyerov 4y ago
He'd be bankrupt many times over without his ability to work massive $ from the US Gov - I'd argue it's one of his biggest strengths, trailing somewhere after his stock market influence abilities, both of which seem key to how he bankrolls massive capex+opex infra projects.
- ryandvm 4y ago
  This so much. Every single Musk adventure seems to requires massive federal subsidies and/or investment to stay afloat. Tesla, SpaceX, Boring Company - it's questionable whether any of them would exist if they were competing in a completely free market. Some think he's saving the world, but from what I can see, he might just be the world's most effective leech.
  - camjohnson26 4y ago
    “Subsidy truffle hound” is how I’ve heard it described.
notafraudster 4y ago
I agree oligarch doesn't characterize Musk (tycoon or magnate might be more appropriate), but there are a great many oligarchs that end up on the losing end of the tides of politics -- surely this is true of Petro Poroshenko in Ukraine or countless now semi-exiled oligarchs in Russia. But I also wouldn't want to exaggerate the temperature of the hot water Musk is in; he's under fairly minor securities scrutiny thanks to a series of unprecedentedly stupid foot-in-mouth decisions he had 100% control over and could have immediately and trivially avoided at no real cost, he picked a fight with the government over reasonable COVID restrictions and they more or less declined to fight back, and lately he's posted a bunch of tweets of the form "DeMoCrAtS mOrE lIkE dImOcRaTs pwnt!!!!" while a joke video game site slaps him around with a trout. Besides that the most credible claim there's political antagonism is a bizarre to make the White House press secretary say the word "Tesla" which seems at best to be a re-run of the "Why Won't Obama Wear A Flag Pin" controversy, only somehow stupider. I'm just saying I wouldn't describe myself as having an antagonistic relationship with the government because I get parking tickets sometimes and I have tweets calling elected officials clowns.
- monksy 4y ago
  Lets not forget about how he was hobnobbing with Trump during the pandemic to get his factories back open.

by exo762 4y ago

> oligarchs Can Musk be considered such, considering his antagonistic relationship with current establishment? His acquisition of Twitter could be seen as his first move into politics realm.

matthewdgreen 4y ago

The "current establishment" of the US comprises two major political parties that switch control back and forth (and sometimes control different parts of the US government simultaneously, as seems likely will occur in 2023.) I see no evidence that Musk is picking a fight with both parties, just the one that is currently disfavored to retain control in the next Congressional elections.

turtledove 4y ago

His first move into politics? His platform (even when he wasn't an antagonistic asshole) was political - climate change, species survival, deregulation.

greenthrow 4y ago

The fact that he doesn't like the current administration does not exempt him from being an oligarch.

gkoberger 4y ago

Tesla/SpaceX/etc have gotten a good number of tax breaks and government contracts.

dagmx 4y ago

Oligarchs don't need to work with the establishment. I'd argue in many cases they exist by subverting the establishment.

walkhour 4y ago
Who do you have in mind? I can't think of a techno oligarch that hasn't pledged to the current establishment. However you feel about the Biden laptop stories, how many of these oligarchs allowed its spread? I think you're kidding yourself if you think oligarchs work against the establishment, but for some reason it's a pretty common view; that of fighting the more powerful, when really that's you.

lmeyerov 4y ago

He'd be bankrupt many times over without his ability to work massive $ from the US Gov - I'd argue it's one of his biggest strengths, trailing somewhere after his stock market influence abilities, both of which seem key to how he bankrolls massive capex+opex infra projects.

ryandvm 4y ago
This so much. Every single Musk adventure seems to requires massive federal subsidies and/or investment to stay afloat. Tesla, SpaceX, Boring Company - it's questionable whether any of them would exist if they were competing in a completely free market. Some think he's saving the world, but from what I can see, he might just be the world's most effective leech.
- camjohnson26 4y ago
  “Subsidy truffle hound” is how I’ve heard it described.

notafraudster 4y ago

I agree oligarch doesn't characterize Musk (tycoon or magnate might be more appropriate), but there are a great many oligarchs that end up on the losing end of the tides of politics -- surely this is true of Petro Poroshenko in Ukraine or countless now semi-exiled oligarchs in Russia. But I also wouldn't want to exaggerate the temperature of the hot water Musk is in; he's under fairly minor securities scrutiny thanks to a series of unprecedentedly stupid foot-in-mouth decisions he had 100% control over and could have immediately and trivially avoided at no real cost, he picked a fight with the government over reasonable COVID restrictions and they more or less declined to fight back, and lately he's posted a bunch of tweets of the form "DeMoCrAtS mOrE lIkE dImOcRaTs pwnt!!!!" while a joke video game site slaps him around with a trout. Besides that the most credible claim there's political antagonism is a bizarre to make the White House press secretary say the word "Tesla" which seems at best to be a re-run of the "Why Won't Obama Wear A Flag Pin" controversy, only somehow stupider. I'm just saying I wouldn't describe myself as having an antagonistic relationship with the government because I get parking tickets sometimes and I have tweets calling elected officials clowns.

monksy 4y ago
Lets not forget about how he was hobnobbing with Trump during the pandemic to get his factories back open.