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I would say I am close to paycheck to paycheck. I have a savings but it is more an emergency fund and I am unable to currently grow it. I also make a very good

I would say I am close to paycheck to paycheck. I have a savings but it is more an emergency fund and I am unable to currently grow it. I also make a very good salary. Enough that I feel like shit complaining knowing that many will never even be close. Now I could sit down and say, ok I will go out less, cut Netflix, some games, etc. but in reality that stuff will add up to at most maybe $300 a month if I am very aggressive. My key issues are rent (which went up $500 a month this year) and the $1500 I am paying towards medical debt. And that is paying the minimum. Then student loans which I stupidly put off these last couple years. I also currently live alone. I am planning on moving in with my partner later this year but that is only going to help so much. The reality is my options are slim. Maybe I could get a roommate but I shouldn’t have too making as much as I do and at the point in my life I am at. I am very fearful for an emergency, job loss, etc. But people tell me I should be more frugal or I buy too much. When the vast majority of my money is spoken for for the next 5 years (debt) and rent. Before I even make that money.

thebean11 4y ago
Putting off student loans that aren't charging interested in a time of high inflation is smart not stupid
- jcadam 4y ago
  Not to mention politicians teasing loan "forgiveness" makes me afraid to make payments for fear of being a sucker when the debt is wiped away in the name of buying votes.
- nerdjon 4y ago
  I disagree, had I continued to pay the loans all of that money would have gone to principal instead of a good chunk going to interest. So I could have made some good progress on the loans themselves. I know they are talking about forgiveness, but the numbers I see thrown around are about 10k of forgiveness and for people making less than 100k
  - thebean11 4y ago
    Were the loans charging interest during that time though? You could have put the money in CDs / I bonds / savings account, earned some interest, then paid it all towards the loans when the pause ended.
    - nerdjon 4y ago
      Ahh I had not considered that, TBH I don't really let myself think about doing things like that given I don't have a safety net to fall back on yet. But yes then I would agree, doing that and then putting it all towards the loans before the forgiveness ends would have been better. But having really done nothing, if I had just continued to pay it that would have been better.
driverdan 4y ago
> most maybe $300 a month $300 is $300. Better to have that in the bank than nothing. > My key issues are rent (which went up $500 a month this year) Have you considered moving somewhere less expensive?
- stetrain 4y ago
  Assuming that they can keep their job/income while moving somewhere less expensive.
- nerdjon 4y ago
  You cut out the "bring aggressive" part. I have already made a ton of cuts to my budget this that additional $300 would be basically removing any fun I have left. Yes I have considered that, I ran the costs of moving out to the suburbs. But in doing so I would need to buy a car, insurance, making a parking spot in a garage depending on where. With the suburbs even going up in rent the cost just doesn't makes sense. I would not be saving money by moving out of the city. Ignoring the question on what kind of car loan I would even get with almost 60k in medical debt having over me. Add too that the increase costs for when I do need to come into the city to go to the office, the quality of life costs for that commute.
vorpalhex 4y ago
$300/mo is $3,600 a year or two months of medical debt payments. If your rent increase was $500/year, I'm guessing you are spending a lot more money on eating out than you realize. Take a moment to pull your statements for the last two or three months and analyze how much spending is going into each category.
- bradlys 4y ago
  How does rent going up relate to eating out?
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    If your rent went up $500/mo and you didn't scream and immediately flee, you are in a high cost of living area. That means eating out is expensive and has gotten more expensive in the last 120 days. If you eat out at all - and almost everyone does, quite a bit - then it is likely a big chunk of change. Even if you previously calculated it ("I spend about $200 a month on eating out...") that number is almost certainly wrong now and needs to be recalculated. It's possible parent doesn't eat out ever, just unlikely.
tekla 4y ago
> The reality is my options are slim. Maybe I could get a roommate but I shouldn’t have too making as much as I do and at the point in my life I am at This is the entitlement. You have options that you refuse to take that would significantly help due to some weird standard.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  No, it's not. People who are in the top 10% of incomes shouldn't need a roommate to get by, they should be able to support other people (like a family.) The income distribution is nowhere near flat enough for that to be acceptable; if elites are worried about getting by, everybody else is a lot more worried.
  - tnel77 4y ago
    While I agree with you overall, I hope you aren’t saying that someone in the top 10% of incomes is “elite.”
    - throwaway5959 4y ago
      OK, then who would you say are elite, if not the people that make more than 90% of people?
      - tnel77 4y ago
        I would personally think of “the elite” as people making millions a year and flying in private jets. Not people leveraged out of their minds so they can drive a new Tahoe and have Starbucks every morning. I think of “elite” people as those making decisions for all of us behind the scenes in major governments or businesses.
        hellisothers 4y ago
        Yea “elite” isn’t a difference in degree it’s a difference in kind. It’s not just more money, it’s a step function Wealth and Power.
xwdv 4y ago
Pick up a second full time remote job.
bombcar 4y ago
It's like losing weight - you HAVE to account for EVERYTHING. Spend some serious time going over your spending (you don't need to make a "budget" per se, but DO map out exactly where the money is going) and preferably over an entire year. Many people get blown out of the water by expenses that only come in yearly (think: property tax that isn't escrowed, etc). Convert everything to monthly billing (even if that means sending money monthly to escrow or a separate account) so you can track it down exactly. Once you have it all laid out, it will be pretty clear what should be done (and just like with weight loss, it will often be something you don't want to hear). If after all that, the debt load is way too high, consider bankruptcy. Done strategically it can be worthwhile.
- nerdjon 4y ago
  I already do this, I have a budget app that I look at almost daily. My "splurges": I give myself $150 a month to go out to eat. $30 to treat myself to a nice coffee every once in a while. $100 on video games. That going out to eat and coffee budget is part of a $200 misc budget (so I could decide to do a show instead of going out for example). I stick to my budget... but I am not leaving myself a ton of money here. If I got all of that, that's $300. But then... why bother working if I am just going to hate my life because I literally can't do anything? That $300 is not going to make the difference between this being sustainable and not. The small stuff is not the problem here. Edit: Regarding your yearly big stuff, I agree and that is taken into account as well. A couple years ago I put in the hard work to figure this out and I have continued to adjust it as need be. It finally hit a point this year that my rent raised higher than my pay raise (plus everything else going up) that I had to make the decision to cut things like Netflix. It is at the point that I feel like I have made nearly any reasonable cut I can make without removing my ability to at least do some things.
  - ryathal 4y ago
    You are already miserable, what you wrote is fixed by contentment, not necessarily money. The question is the $300 now making you less miserable than using that money to pay off debt sooner or see a savings account go up again? Would you be happier in six months with $1800 less debt, would that free up more money by removing a payment? Small stuff isn't always the problem, but for a lot of people it is. Some people need bigger changes, but those are often scary.
JamesBarney 4y ago
Have you looked into declaring bankruptcy? It's there to keep people from being strangled by debt. Even just the threat of filling it can probably get your medical debt renegotiated.
- nerdjon 4y ago
  I did briefly look into it, but my situation isn't credit card debt. I am not carrying balances that I can't pay down. These are loans that have an end date, and that end date is less than 5 years. It is a tight 5 years don't get me wrong, but there is an end to this that I don't think bankruptcy is the answer for me. It is 60k in medical debt, $1500 a month is a lot but to pay off that much in less than 5 years... And then admittedly I am in a very very good situation (suddenly I have $1500 extra money in my budget)
  - rustybelt 4y ago
    The medical debt seems to be the entire source of your problems. By your own accounting you'd be banking close to $2k a month without it. Were you uninsured?
stripline 4y ago
If you have an emergency fund then you aren't living paycheck to paycheck. You could miss a paycheck and pay rent / eat using savings.

thebean11 4y ago

Putting off student loans that aren't charging interested in a time of high inflation is smart not stupid

jcadam 4y ago
Not to mention politicians teasing loan "forgiveness" makes me afraid to make payments for fear of being a sucker when the debt is wiped away in the name of buying votes.
nerdjon 4y ago
I disagree, had I continued to pay the loans all of that money would have gone to principal instead of a good chunk going to interest. So I could have made some good progress on the loans themselves. I know they are talking about forgiveness, but the numbers I see thrown around are about 10k of forgiveness and for people making less than 100k
- thebean11 4y ago
  Were the loans charging interest during that time though? You could have put the money in CDs / I bonds / savings account, earned some interest, then paid it all towards the loans when the pause ended.
  - nerdjon 4y ago
    Ahh I had not considered that, TBH I don't really let myself think about doing things like that given I don't have a safety net to fall back on yet. But yes then I would agree, doing that and then putting it all towards the loans before the forgiveness ends would have been better. But having really done nothing, if I had just continued to pay it that would have been better.

driverdan 4y ago

> most maybe $300 a month $300 is $300. Better to have that in the bank than nothing. > My key issues are rent (which went up $500 a month this year) Have you considered moving somewhere less expensive?

stetrain 4y ago
Assuming that they can keep their job/income while moving somewhere less expensive.
nerdjon 4y ago
You cut out the "bring aggressive" part. I have already made a ton of cuts to my budget this that additional $300 would be basically removing any fun I have left. Yes I have considered that, I ran the costs of moving out to the suburbs. But in doing so I would need to buy a car, insurance, making a parking spot in a garage depending on where. With the suburbs even going up in rent the cost just doesn't makes sense. I would not be saving money by moving out of the city. Ignoring the question on what kind of car loan I would even get with almost 60k in medical debt having over me. Add too that the increase costs for when I do need to come into the city to go to the office, the quality of life costs for that commute.

vorpalhex 4y ago

$300/mo is $3,600 a year or two months of medical debt payments. If your rent increase was $500/year, I'm guessing you are spending a lot more money on eating out than you realize. Take a moment to pull your statements for the last two or three months and analyze how much spending is going into each category.

bradlys 4y ago
How does rent going up relate to eating out?
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  If your rent went up $500/mo and you didn't scream and immediately flee, you are in a high cost of living area. That means eating out is expensive and has gotten more expensive in the last 120 days. If you eat out at all - and almost everyone does, quite a bit - then it is likely a big chunk of change. Even if you previously calculated it ("I spend about $200 a month on eating out...") that number is almost certainly wrong now and needs to be recalculated. It's possible parent doesn't eat out ever, just unlikely.

tekla 4y ago

> The reality is my options are slim. Maybe I could get a roommate but I shouldn’t have too making as much as I do and at the point in my life I am at This is the entitlement. You have options that you refuse to take that would significantly help due to some weird standard.

pessimizer 4y ago
No, it's not. People who are in the top 10% of incomes shouldn't need a roommate to get by, they should be able to support other people (like a family.) The income distribution is nowhere near flat enough for that to be acceptable; if elites are worried about getting by, everybody else is a lot more worried.
- tnel77 4y ago
  While I agree with you overall, I hope you aren’t saying that someone in the top 10% of incomes is “elite.”
  - throwaway5959 4y ago
    OK, then who would you say are elite, if not the people that make more than 90% of people?
    - tnel77 4y ago
      I would personally think of “the elite” as people making millions a year and flying in private jets. Not people leveraged out of their minds so they can drive a new Tahoe and have Starbucks every morning. I think of “elite” people as those making decisions for all of us behind the scenes in major governments or businesses.
      - hellisothers 4y ago
        Yea “elite” isn’t a difference in degree it’s a difference in kind. It’s not just more money, it’s a step function Wealth and Power.

xwdv 4y ago

Pick up a second full time remote job.

bombcar 4y ago

It's like losing weight - you HAVE to account for EVERYTHING. Spend some serious time going over your spending (you don't need to make a "budget" per se, but DO map out exactly where the money is going) and preferably over an entire year. Many people get blown out of the water by expenses that only come in yearly (think: property tax that isn't escrowed, etc). Convert everything to monthly billing (even if that means sending money monthly to escrow or a separate account) so you can track it down exactly. Once you have it all laid out, it will be pretty clear what should be done (and just like with weight loss, it will often be something you don't want to hear). If after all that, the debt load is way too high, consider bankruptcy. Done strategically it can be worthwhile.

nerdjon 4y ago
I already do this, I have a budget app that I look at almost daily. My "splurges": I give myself $150 a month to go out to eat. $30 to treat myself to a nice coffee every once in a while. $100 on video games. That going out to eat and coffee budget is part of a $200 misc budget (so I could decide to do a show instead of going out for example). I stick to my budget... but I am not leaving myself a ton of money here. If I got all of that, that's $300. But then... why bother working if I am just going to hate my life because I literally can't do anything? That $300 is not going to make the difference between this being sustainable and not. The small stuff is not the problem here. Edit: Regarding your yearly big stuff, I agree and that is taken into account as well. A couple years ago I put in the hard work to figure this out and I have continued to adjust it as need be. It finally hit a point this year that my rent raised higher than my pay raise (plus everything else going up) that I had to make the decision to cut things like Netflix. It is at the point that I feel like I have made nearly any reasonable cut I can make without removing my ability to at least do some things.
- ryathal 4y ago
  You are already miserable, what you wrote is fixed by contentment, not necessarily money. The question is the $300 now making you less miserable than using that money to pay off debt sooner or see a savings account go up again? Would you be happier in six months with $1800 less debt, would that free up more money by removing a payment? Small stuff isn't always the problem, but for a lot of people it is. Some people need bigger changes, but those are often scary.

JamesBarney 4y ago

Have you looked into declaring bankruptcy? It's there to keep people from being strangled by debt. Even just the threat of filling it can probably get your medical debt renegotiated.

nerdjon 4y ago
I did briefly look into it, but my situation isn't credit card debt. I am not carrying balances that I can't pay down. These are loans that have an end date, and that end date is less than 5 years. It is a tight 5 years don't get me wrong, but there is an end to this that I don't think bankruptcy is the answer for me. It is 60k in medical debt, $1500 a month is a lot but to pay off that much in less than 5 years... And then admittedly I am in a very very good situation (suddenly I have $1500 extra money in my budget)
- rustybelt 4y ago
  The medical debt seems to be the entire source of your problems. By your own accounting you'd be banking close to $2k a month without it. Were you uninsured?

stripline 4y ago

If you have an emergency fund then you aren't living paycheck to paycheck. You could miss a paycheck and pay rent / eat using savings.