4 ms·

MDMA seems more harmful to me with semi-frequent use. The comedowns are brutal and repeated use seems to make it worse. Either are fine taken occasionally but o

by Tenoke 4y ago

MDMA seems more harmful to me with semi-frequent use. The comedowns are brutal and repeated use seems to make it worse. Either are fine taken occasionally but opioids and meth (vyanese) can be taken daily with fairly small negative effects while I doubt you can do MDMA even once weekly for a year without being much worse off in the end.

sudosysgen 4y ago
Vyvanse isn't meth. It's lisdexamphetamine, and it's significantly less neurotoxic than meth (yes, even at equivalent dosages). Methamphetamine is rarely prescribed for ADHD, but even when it is (Desoxyn), it's chemically different to meth you'd find on the street, because it's only the d-enantiomer, and thus has much less off-target effects outside of the CNS. Sometimes steet meth is also only the dextro form, but that's far from assured. In any case, the idea that vyvanse shows that meth can easily be taken with small negative effects is wrong, because Vyvanse isn't meth, and meth is very rarely prescribed because it's worse for your health than other amphetamines, and even when it is prescribed it's typically far safer than steet meth.
- Tenoke 4y ago
  Sorry I meant Desoxyn. > it's chemically different to meth you'd find on the street Well yeah, but the MDMA on the street isn't really pure MDMA either.
  - sudosysgen 4y ago
    Yeah, but Desoxyn is a last resort for a very good reason, and it most often has pretty serious negative effects. Just not as serious as severe unmedicated ADHD.
    - Tenoke 4y ago
      The reason seems to be stigma as far as I can tell. The negative effects don't seem to be worse than Adderall/Dexedrine and the positive effects are usually a bit better. https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines
      - sudosysgen 4y ago
        Not quite. Differences in action have been found : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631950/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631950/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4497800/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4497800/, and there is reason to believe this could cause higher toxicity.
      - spiralx 4y ago
        Methamphetamine is neurotoxic, lis-/dex-amphetamine and methylphenidate are not.
nicoburns 4y ago
On the other hand, the others are all highly addictive in a way that MDMA isn't. And if something isn't addictive then it becomes a lot harder to argue that an adult shouldn't be able to self-determine whether they want to take something potentially harmful or not. > I doubt you can do MDMA even once weekly for a year without being much worse off in the end I know some people who did this while in university (twice at a week at times). I would say it definitely did have some negative effect (mostly depressed mood - leading to actual depression in some cases but not others), but that this didn't persist long past the period of use (a few months), and none of these people still use MDMA with such regularity (a lot of them do still take it occasionally), all of them passed their degrees and have good jobs and normal lives now.

by Tenoke 4y ago

sudosysgen 4y ago

Vyvanse isn't meth. It's lisdexamphetamine, and it's significantly less neurotoxic than meth (yes, even at equivalent dosages). Methamphetamine is rarely prescribed for ADHD, but even when it is (Desoxyn), it's chemically different to meth you'd find on the street, because it's only the d-enantiomer, and thus has much less off-target effects outside of the CNS. Sometimes steet meth is also only the dextro form, but that's far from assured. In any case, the idea that vyvanse shows that meth can easily be taken with small negative effects is wrong, because Vyvanse isn't meth, and meth is very rarely prescribed because it's worse for your health than other amphetamines, and even when it is prescribed it's typically far safer than steet meth.

Tenoke 4y ago
Sorry I meant Desoxyn. > it's chemically different to meth you'd find on the street Well yeah, but the MDMA on the street isn't really pure MDMA either.
- sudosysgen 4y ago
  Yeah, but Desoxyn is a last resort for a very good reason, and it most often has pretty serious negative effects. Just not as serious as severe unmedicated ADHD.
  - Tenoke 4y ago
    The reason seems to be stigma as far as I can tell. The negative effects don't seem to be worse than Adderall/Dexedrine and the positive effects are usually a bit better. https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines https://astralcodexten.substack.com/p/know-your-amphetamines
    - sudosysgen 4y ago
      Not quite. Differences in action have been found : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631950/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631950/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4497800/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4497800/, and there is reason to believe this could cause higher toxicity.
    - spiralx 4y ago
      Methamphetamine is neurotoxic, lis-/dex-amphetamine and methylphenidate are not.

nicoburns 4y ago

On the other hand, the others are all highly addictive in a way that MDMA isn't. And if something isn't addictive then it becomes a lot harder to argue that an adult shouldn't be able to self-determine whether they want to take something potentially harmful or not. > I doubt you can do MDMA even once weekly for a year without being much worse off in the end I know some people who did this while in university (twice at a week at times). I would say it definitely did have some negative effect (mostly depressed mood - leading to actual depression in some cases but not others), but that this didn't persist long past the period of use (a few months), and none of these people still use MDMA with such regularity (a lot of them do still take it occasionally), all of them passed their degrees and have good jobs and normal lives now.