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While presumably trying to accomplish the opposite, you have written a fine example of whataboutism, that feels to be almost right out of the Russian propaganda
by eveningcoffee 4y ago
While presumably trying to accomplish the opposite, you have written a fine example of whataboutism, that feels to be almost right out of the Russian propaganda playbook. Well done, I guess. Or?
Based on what you have written here, I would seriously recommend you to review the media and social media you are consuming as it hints about serious Russian propaganda influence in there.
Ukrainian invasion is not about occupation, it is not about regime change. It is about destruction of nation. How blind and deaf one has to be to not understand it when even the person solely responsible for this war says it himself???
How???
Do I support US wars? Honestly, no. Especially Iraq war that was started based on the very muddy reasons.
But are these wars even remotely comparable to Russian invasion in Ukraine? No.
Lets go over them in chronological order.
** Afghanistan war 2001 was started because of Taliban regime support and refuge to terrorist group behind attack on Twin Towers that resulted in around 4000 civilian deaths in a single strike (initial numbers were presumed to be even higher but this is the figure I remember to have seen recently).
Has Ukraine done anything that even remotely resembles something like this? No.
** Iraq war 2003 was started because of claim that Iraq is in possession of WMD and is hiding those. These weapons were not found after invasion. These were either successfully moved out of Iraq or were really destroyed as Iraq claimed. Later confessions have revealed that the real reason behind the war was unfinished business with Saddam Hussein in Gulf War where he was not removed from power and where he ruthlessly drowned civilian revolts against him in blood.
Regardless of all this, Saddam Hussein was a mass murderer and ruthless despot known to murder and torture its own people.
Is Ukrainian government even remotely similar to Saddam Hussein? Hell no!
** Military intervention in Libya 2011
In 2011 Libya was already in civil war and NATO intervention was started because of fear of genocide committed by Muammar Gaddafi.
Was this situation by any means similar to Ukraine? No.
** Yemen civil war 2014
This civil war started because of attempted coup but it quickly changed into proxy war between Saudi-Arabia and Iran that is, it is conflict between Sunny and Shia Muslims over control of natural resources. Not providing help to Sunny Muslims would most likely end in genocide against them.
Again, is this situation by any means similar to Ukraine? No.
I am following social media very closely and what you wrote down here are exactly the talking points of Russian propaganda with the same factual mistakes. Lets review one example.
Trump is what I would call a follower of realpolitik but even he was not as cynical as you write here. I recommend you to check what he actually said https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/statement-president-donald-j-trump-standing-saudi-arabia/ https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/briefings-statements/st...
But what you write gets even worse because it looks like you are protecting Assad regime right to murder 100000s of civilians and creation of one of the largest refugee crises in recent history.
All this could have been prevented by timely US intervention that you appear to be opposing. Missing this even after usage of chemical weapons that was claimed to be the red line by Obama, resulted in giving the opportunity to Putin regime that in the end led to the current war in Ukraine.
Your claim of calling Arestovich a hawk is beyond ridiculous. This is already on the level of victim blaming. Why are you doing this?
Whataboutism is exactly what it is - an attempt to redirect the attention from the flaming problem at hand into endless discussion about something that is not even remotely relevant to the problem at hand. And you have fallen so nicely into this trap.
- eveningcoffee 4y agoNow if you would be willing to discuss how the war in Ukraine could have been really avoided, I am ready to explain myself further. I am even more willing to discuss the reason behind the war in Ukraine if you are interested and prospects to end this war. Finally I am interested to compare these named conflicts to war in Ukraine in more detail because there for sure are certain similarities that should be discussed and analyzed, especially in hopes to prevent future wars.
- EGreg 4y agoOf course we should be preventing wars. We shouldn’t flood the region with weapons, nearly all of which explode on UKRAINIAN soil and kill UKRAINIAN civilians. Think about that fact. Instead, we should promote diplomacy BEFORE conflicts even begin. It could have been prevented if USA and Britain supported Minsk I or II instead of undermining it while France and Germany tried to make it happen via the Normandy format summits. They went so far as to help far right nationalists in Ukraine, to prevent it. It is like Netanyahu not supporting Hamas and Fatah making a peace deal in 2014 because then they’d start to be united. It could have been prevented if NATO welcomed Russia in 2001 into itself. Or decades ago if it didn’t reject USSR’s application to join NATO. It could have been prevented if some federation like EU could have been established after the fall of the Soviet Union. It is unthinkable that New York would invade New Jersey, but that’s because of the Union. Lincoln fought a far bloodier civil war to preserve the union, and Gorbachev never did. In fact, it is likely that if the USSR stayed intact, it would have been quite liberal by now. Gorbachev’s perestroika and glasnost were well under way by 1991 when it collapsed, and that was 30 years ago. EU is far stronger and more peaceful as a union, USA also. Tulsi, Ron Paul, and many others in USA straight out say the war could have been avoided if NATO honestly admitted that it won’t welcome Ukraine, and stop trying to antagonize Russia. But Tulsi is probably correct that the war hawks want this war, because it will bleed Russia dry just as Afghanistan war bled USSR dry. At the cost of a million civilian lives ! Would they have made this choice if the civilians were their own rather than 3000 miles away? Ask yourself that. Here is Tulsi on Tucker saying it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OF5oPNjMZw4 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OF5oPNjMZw4 Here is Kim Iverson on Rising saying it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=11q9dir2Nts https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=11q9dir2Nts Here is Hillary admitting it: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AwpR6ngoSjQ https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AwpR6ngoSjQ Hillary has been calling for no-fly zones with Russia in any country she could, since 2013. She hates Putin. She admits this ups the risk tremendously, and Biden calls it “WW3”, but the war hawk mentality is that we must lead everywhere and prevent anyone else from leading: http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/12/hillary-clintons-insane-plan-for-a-no-fly-zone.html http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2015/12/hillary-clinto... Obama had to brag about destroying Russia’s allies, in order to justify his “leadership” to the media. No, literally: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wib6cLJ99yY https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wib6cLJ99yY With the prevailing cold war exceptionalism mentality like this, that persists to this day in mainstream media and politics of USA and Russia And China, is it a wonder that these smaller countries are all messed up by foreign meddling?