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Who says the pay is mediocre/bad? Seems like "Manufacturing Associate" and "Machine Operator" is at $18 / hr. Which would average out to $21 / hr if they're get

by imgabe 4y ago

Who says the pay is mediocre/bad? Seems like "Manufacturing Associate" and "Machine Operator" is at $18 / hr. Which would average out to $21 / hr if they're getting time and a half overtime for 20 hours a week. Not bad for an entry level factory job. They get stock too. Sure, they should unionize if they want. Seems like most are pretty happy with the job though. https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla/salaries?job_category=manufacturing https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla/salaries?job_category=manuf...

kennywinker 4y ago
If you have to sacrifice 60 hours a week of your life to get good pay, it’s not good pay. And $63k/year is mediocre at best. It’s below the national median, and I’d be willing to bet if you adjust for cost of living near most of the locations where tesla workers work, it’s worse than “near average” As for if the workers there like it? https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/10/tesla-employee-satisfaction-ratings-slip/ https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/10/tesla-employee-satisfact... > At jobs site Glassdoor, Tesla's overall company rating fell to 3.2 out of 5.0 stars based on reviews written in the first quarter from a high of 3.6 in 2017 A high of 3.6 isn’t exactly a enthusiastic endorsement. Toyota has a 4.0, Ford has a 4.1.
- imgabe 4y ago
  By definition, 50% of jobs are going to be below the median wage. That's what the median means. Why would an entry level job that doesn't require a college degree pay more than 50% of all other jobs? According to this[1] the median is $19.33/hr, so Tesla is not far off. It's above with overtime. [1] https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american-income/ https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american...
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    An "entry level" job that "doesn't require a college degree" doesn't need to pay more than 50% of all other jobs. But a job that demands you give up 60 hours of your life every week needs to pay much better than 50% of all jobs. If you want to work 60 hours a week at your FAANG or startup job, that's your choice (though that choice does have an impact in terms of the expectations within the industry) - but you're probably being paid 2x-5x so you're well rewarded for your time.
    - imgabe 4y ago
      Any evidence that overtime at 60 hours a week, every single week forever is mandatory for all Tesla factory workers? That seems unusual compared to how most hourly jobs are run. Lots of people are happy to take overtime when it's available. Never seen anything that says 60hrs per week is mandatory all the time.
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        Evidence: https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1531807546729799687 https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1531807546729799687 -> 40 hours a week is less than we ask of factory workers So straight from the horses mouth the expectation is somewhere over 40. No mention of that being a “sometimes” situation. https://www.glassdoor.com/FAQ/Tesla-Question-FAQ200052-E43129.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/FAQ/Tesla-Question-FAQ200052-E4312... “Insane work hours for everyone, no overtime pay” “Starting hourly pay is essentially poverty wage in the Bay Area and you only get overtime pay after 10 hours, not 8 hours like you would think.” “Occasionally is fine, but 12 - 14 hours a day five days a week is not safe especially considering we work with electricity” Too many quotes to that effect to list them all. Universally they say: overtime starts at 10 hours not eight, there is a lot of it (i didn’t see any comment citing overtime under 60 hours), and it’s mandatory.
        imgabe 4y ago
        > So straight from the horses mouth the expectation is somewhere over 40. There are 19 other numbers between 40 and 60. How do you reach the conclusion that since it's more than 40, it must necessarily be exactly 60 all the time for every employee? > “Insane work hours for everyone, no overtime pay” > you only get overtime pay after 10 hours, not 8 hours like you would think. It sounds like these are salaried positions and they are not entitled to any overtime pay. If they were talking about hourly positions they would be getting time-and-half from 41 hours on, because that's the law. The fact that they're getting any overtime pay at all in a salaried position is more than most companies do and is beyond what is required by law. From the Department of Labor website: > Nonexempt workers must be paid overtime pay at a rate of not less than one and one-half times their regular rates of pay after 40 hours of work in a workweek. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/compliance-assistance/handy-reference-guide-flsa#1 https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/compliance-assistance/handy... So, there's no way the overtime after 10+ applies to non-exempt employees.
  - Ekaros 4y ago
    Why should college degree give more than median pay? Specially in jobs where it is not required?
- the_only_law 4y ago
  > And $63k/year is mediocre at best > It’s below the national median. For household maybe, I think median individual median is much lower. I know many college educated individuals who say they’d kill for $60k. Most of them are probably in the $35k-$45k range working office positions that require education for some reason.
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    I'm not comparing this to what exists in the job marketplace, I'm comparing it to what the cost of living is. Buying a house, having two kids, sending them to collage, while being resilient enough to handle a long period of unemployment or health crisis. Those are things that should be possible for everyone and anyone if you're working 40/week - or at least, that was the Ford motor company bargain. Any job that offers you less than that isn't a "good job" - and any company that mints billionaires while offering less than that to their employees is deeply exploitative. And remember - $63k a year was just a number that the comment I was replying to floated. $19/hour is $38k / year - you only get above that by sacrificing over 40 hours of your life every week to the company, and Tesla doesn't pay overtime until +10 hours.
    - imgabe 4y ago
      > Tesla doesn't pay overtime until +10 hours. ...for salaried employees, where they aren't required to pay any overtime at all. non-exempt employees have to be paid overtime after 40 hours by law.
the_only_law 4y ago
I guess it depends on where the factories are.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_factories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_factories In the USA: Fremont, California - Lathrop, California - Grand Rapids, Michigan - Storey County, Nevada - Buffalo, New York - Brooklyn Park, Minnesota - Elgin, Illinois - Austin, Texas

by imgabe 4y ago

kennywinker 4y ago

If you have to sacrifice 60 hours a week of your life to get good pay, it’s not good pay. And $63k/year is mediocre at best. It’s below the national median, and I’d be willing to bet if you adjust for cost of living near most of the locations where tesla workers work, it’s worse than “near average” As for if the workers there like it? https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/10/tesla-employee-satisfaction-ratings-slip/ https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/10/tesla-employee-satisfact... > At jobs site Glassdoor, Tesla's overall company rating fell to 3.2 out of 5.0 stars based on reviews written in the first quarter from a high of 3.6 in 2017 A high of 3.6 isn’t exactly a enthusiastic endorsement. Toyota has a 4.0, Ford has a 4.1.

imgabe 4y ago
By definition, 50% of jobs are going to be below the median wage. That's what the median means. Why would an entry level job that doesn't require a college degree pay more than 50% of all other jobs? According to this[1] the median is $19.33/hr, so Tesla is not far off. It's above with overtime. [1] https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american-income/ https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american...
- kennywinker 4y ago
  An "entry level" job that "doesn't require a college degree" doesn't need to pay more than 50% of all other jobs. But a job that demands you give up 60 hours of your life every week needs to pay much better than 50% of all jobs. If you want to work 60 hours a week at your FAANG or startup job, that's your choice (though that choice does have an impact in terms of the expectations within the industry) - but you're probably being paid 2x-5x so you're well rewarded for your time.
  - imgabe 4y ago
    Any evidence that overtime at 60 hours a week, every single week forever is mandatory for all Tesla factory workers? That seems unusual compared to how most hourly jobs are run. Lots of people are happy to take overtime when it's available. Never seen anything that says 60hrs per week is mandatory all the time.
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      Evidence: https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1531807546729799687 https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1531807546729799687 -> 40 hours a week is less than we ask of factory workers So straight from the horses mouth the expectation is somewhere over 40. No mention of that being a “sometimes” situation. https://www.glassdoor.com/FAQ/Tesla-Question-FAQ200052-E43129.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/FAQ/Tesla-Question-FAQ200052-E4312... “Insane work hours for everyone, no overtime pay” “Starting hourly pay is essentially poverty wage in the Bay Area and you only get overtime pay after 10 hours, not 8 hours like you would think.” “Occasionally is fine, but 12 - 14 hours a day five days a week is not safe especially considering we work with electricity” Too many quotes to that effect to list them all. Universally they say: overtime starts at 10 hours not eight, there is a lot of it (i didn’t see any comment citing overtime under 60 hours), and it’s mandatory.
      - imgabe 4y ago
        > So straight from the horses mouth the expectation is somewhere over 40. There are 19 other numbers between 40 and 60. How do you reach the conclusion that since it's more than 40, it must necessarily be exactly 60 all the time for every employee? > “Insane work hours for everyone, no overtime pay” > you only get overtime pay after 10 hours, not 8 hours like you would think. It sounds like these are salaried positions and they are not entitled to any overtime pay. If they were talking about hourly positions they would be getting time-and-half from 41 hours on, because that's the law. The fact that they're getting any overtime pay at all in a salaried position is more than most companies do and is beyond what is required by law. From the Department of Labor website: > Nonexempt workers must be paid overtime pay at a rate of not less than one and one-half times their regular rates of pay after 40 hours of work in a workweek. https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/compliance-assistance/handy-reference-guide-flsa#1 https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/compliance-assistance/handy... So, there's no way the overtime after 10+ applies to non-exempt employees.
- Ekaros 4y ago
  Why should college degree give more than median pay? Specially in jobs where it is not required?
the_only_law 4y ago
> And $63k/year is mediocre at best > It’s below the national median. For household maybe, I think median individual median is much lower. I know many college educated individuals who say they’d kill for $60k. Most of them are probably in the $35k-$45k range working office positions that require education for some reason.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  I'm not comparing this to what exists in the job marketplace, I'm comparing it to what the cost of living is. Buying a house, having two kids, sending them to collage, while being resilient enough to handle a long period of unemployment or health crisis. Those are things that should be possible for everyone and anyone if you're working 40/week - or at least, that was the Ford motor company bargain. Any job that offers you less than that isn't a "good job" - and any company that mints billionaires while offering less than that to their employees is deeply exploitative. And remember - $63k a year was just a number that the comment I was replying to floated. $19/hour is $38k / year - you only get above that by sacrificing over 40 hours of your life every week to the company, and Tesla doesn't pay overtime until +10 hours.
  - imgabe 4y ago
    > Tesla doesn't pay overtime until +10 hours. ...for salaried employees, where they aren't required to pay any overtime at all. non-exempt employees have to be paid overtime after 40 hours by law.

the_only_law 4y ago

I guess it depends on where the factories are.

kennywinker 4y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_factories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_factories In the USA: Fremont, California - Lathrop, California - Grand Rapids, Michigan - Storey County, Nevada - Buffalo, New York - Brooklyn Park, Minnesota - Elgin, Illinois - Austin, Texas