7 ms·

I think that part is fair enough. But reading between the lines, factory workers are expected to do more than 40 hours a week? That's less fair.

by jmkni 4y ago

water554 4y ago
Well they will get OT and if they don’t like it can always find another job
imgabe 4y ago
They're probably paid hourly and get overtime.
- kennywinker 4y ago
  That “probably” is doing about 60 hours a week of work in that sentence. The ford motor company bargain was 8 hours of work, 8 hours of life, 8 hours of rest and a middle class lifestyle. The tesla motor company bargain is…? Seems like mediocre to bad pay, 12 hours of work, 6 hours of life, 6 hours of sleep? Yeah, i’d be unionizing if I was a tesla worker.
  - imgabe 4y ago
    Who says the pay is mediocre/bad? Seems like "Manufacturing Associate" and "Machine Operator" is at $18 / hr. Which would average out to $21 / hr if they're getting time and a half overtime for 20 hours a week. Not bad for an entry level factory job. They get stock too. Sure, they should unionize if they want. Seems like most are pretty happy with the job though. https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla/salaries?job_category=manufacturing https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla/salaries?job_category=manuf...
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      If you have to sacrifice 60 hours a week of your life to get good pay, it’s not good pay. And $63k/year is mediocre at best. It’s below the national median, and I’d be willing to bet if you adjust for cost of living near most of the locations where tesla workers work, it’s worse than “near average” As for if the workers there like it? https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/10/tesla-employee-satisfaction-ratings-slip/ https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/10/tesla-employee-satisfact... > At jobs site Glassdoor, Tesla's overall company rating fell to 3.2 out of 5.0 stars based on reviews written in the first quarter from a high of 3.6 in 2017 A high of 3.6 isn’t exactly a enthusiastic endorsement. Toyota has a 4.0, Ford has a 4.1.
      - imgabe 4y ago
        By definition, 50% of jobs are going to be below the median wage. That's what the median means. Why would an entry level job that doesn't require a college degree pay more than 50% of all other jobs? According to this[1] the median is $19.33/hr, so Tesla is not far off. It's above with overtime. [1] https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american-income/ https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american...
        kennywinker 4y ago
        An "entry level" job that "doesn't require a college degree" doesn't need to pay more than 50% of all other jobs. But a job that demands you give up 60 hours of your life every week needs to pay much better than 50% of all jobs. If you want to work 60 hours a week at your FAANG or startup job, that's your choice (though that choice does have an impact in terms of the expectations within the industry) - but you're probably being paid 2x-5x so you're well rewarded for your time.
        imgabe 4y ago
        Any evidence that overtime at 60 hours a week, every single week forever is mandatory for all Tesla factory workers? That seems unusual compared to how most hourly jobs are run. Lots of people are happy to take overtime when it's available. Never seen anything that says 60hrs per week is mandatory all the time.
        kennywinker 4y ago
        Evidence: https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1531807546729799687 https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1531807546729799687 -> 40 hours a week is less than we ask of factory workers So straight from the horses mouth the expectation is somewhere over 40. No mention of that being a “sometimes” situation. https://www.glassdoor.com/FAQ/Tesla-Question-FAQ200052-E43129.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/FAQ/Tesla-Question-FAQ200052-E4312... “Insane work hours for everyone, no overtime pay” “Starting hourly pay is essentially poverty wage in the Bay Area and you only get overtime pay after 10 hours, not 8 hours like you would think.” “Occasionally is fine, but 12 - 14 hours a day five days a week is not safe especially considering we work with electricity” Too many quotes to that effect to list them all. Universally they say: overtime starts at 10 hours not eight, there is a lot of it (i didn’t see any comment citing overtime under 60 hours), and it’s mandatory.
    - the_only_law 4y ago
      I guess it depends on where the factories are.
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_factories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_factories In the USA: Fremont, California - Lathrop, California - Grand Rapids, Michigan - Storey County, Nevada - Buffalo, New York - Brooklyn Park, Minnesota - Elgin, Illinois - Austin, Texas
- jmkni 4y ago
  Overtime is fine if it's optional, but the line: > This is less than we ask of factory workers Implies it's maybe not so optional
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    Tesla also doesn’t pay overtime until +10 hours, not the +8 that is standard.
    - imgabe 4y ago
      That is for salaried positions where they aren't even required to pay any overtime at all. Non-exempt workers have to get overtime after 40 hours.

I think that part is fair enough. But reading between the lines, factory workers are expected to do more than 40 hours a week? That's less fair.

by jmkni 4y ago

I think that part is fair enough. But reading between the lines, factory workers are expected to do more than 40 hours a week? That's less fair.

water554 4y ago

Well they will get OT and if they don’t like it can always find another job

imgabe 4y ago

They're probably paid hourly and get overtime.

kennywinker 4y ago
That “probably” is doing about 60 hours a week of work in that sentence. The ford motor company bargain was 8 hours of work, 8 hours of life, 8 hours of rest and a middle class lifestyle. The tesla motor company bargain is…? Seems like mediocre to bad pay, 12 hours of work, 6 hours of life, 6 hours of sleep? Yeah, i’d be unionizing if I was a tesla worker.
- imgabe 4y ago
  Who says the pay is mediocre/bad? Seems like "Manufacturing Associate" and "Machine Operator" is at $18 / hr. Which would average out to $21 / hr if they're getting time and a half overtime for 20 hours a week. Not bad for an entry level factory job. They get stock too. Sure, they should unionize if they want. Seems like most are pretty happy with the job though. https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla/salaries?job_category=manufacturing https://www.indeed.com/cmp/Tesla/salaries?job_category=manuf...
  - kennywinker 4y ago
    If you have to sacrifice 60 hours a week of your life to get good pay, it’s not good pay. And $63k/year is mediocre at best. It’s below the national median, and I’d be willing to bet if you adjust for cost of living near most of the locations where tesla workers work, it’s worse than “near average” As for if the workers there like it? https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/10/tesla-employee-satisfaction-ratings-slip/ https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/10/tesla-employee-satisfact... > At jobs site Glassdoor, Tesla's overall company rating fell to 3.2 out of 5.0 stars based on reviews written in the first quarter from a high of 3.6 in 2017 A high of 3.6 isn’t exactly a enthusiastic endorsement. Toyota has a 4.0, Ford has a 4.1.
    - imgabe 4y ago
      By definition, 50% of jobs are going to be below the median wage. That's what the median means. Why would an entry level job that doesn't require a college degree pay more than 50% of all other jobs? According to this[1] the median is $19.33/hr, so Tesla is not far off. It's above with overtime. [1] https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american-income/ https://policyadvice.net/insurance/insights/average-american...
      - kennywinker 4y ago
        An "entry level" job that "doesn't require a college degree" doesn't need to pay more than 50% of all other jobs. But a job that demands you give up 60 hours of your life every week needs to pay much better than 50% of all jobs. If you want to work 60 hours a week at your FAANG or startup job, that's your choice (though that choice does have an impact in terms of the expectations within the industry) - but you're probably being paid 2x-5x so you're well rewarded for your time.
        imgabe 4y ago
        Any evidence that overtime at 60 hours a week, every single week forever is mandatory for all Tesla factory workers? That seems unusual compared to how most hourly jobs are run. Lots of people are happy to take overtime when it's available. Never seen anything that says 60hrs per week is mandatory all the time.
        kennywinker 4y ago
        Evidence: https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1531807546729799687 https://twitter.com/wholemarsblog/status/1531807546729799687 -> 40 hours a week is less than we ask of factory workers So straight from the horses mouth the expectation is somewhere over 40. No mention of that being a “sometimes” situation. https://www.glassdoor.com/FAQ/Tesla-Question-FAQ200052-E43129.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/FAQ/Tesla-Question-FAQ200052-E4312... “Insane work hours for everyone, no overtime pay” “Starting hourly pay is essentially poverty wage in the Bay Area and you only get overtime pay after 10 hours, not 8 hours like you would think.” “Occasionally is fine, but 12 - 14 hours a day five days a week is not safe especially considering we work with electricity” Too many quotes to that effect to list them all. Universally they say: overtime starts at 10 hours not eight, there is a lot of it (i didn’t see any comment citing overtime under 60 hours), and it’s mandatory.
  - the_only_law 4y ago
    I guess it depends on where the factories are.
    - kennywinker 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_factories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Tesla_factories In the USA: Fremont, California - Lathrop, California - Grand Rapids, Michigan - Storey County, Nevada - Buffalo, New York - Brooklyn Park, Minnesota - Elgin, Illinois - Austin, Texas
jmkni 4y ago
Overtime is fine if it's optional, but the line: > This is less than we ask of factory workers Implies it's maybe not so optional
- kennywinker 4y ago
  Tesla also doesn’t pay overtime until +10 hours, not the +8 that is standard.
  - imgabe 4y ago
    That is for salaried positions where they aren't even required to pay any overtime at all. Non-exempt workers have to get overtime after 40 hours.