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>Maybe you are conflicted since easy repairs mean you no longer have a job I own an IT company among other things, bread and butter is servers & networking. 99

>Maybe you are conflicted since easy repairs mean you no longer have a job I own an IT company among other things, bread and butter is servers & networking. 99% of laptops that people buy aren't the ultra portables with the soldered everything, they are the bulky $600 Laptops. Even in the ultra portables, screens and motherboards are replaceable, it's a toss up with storage and ram. The comment I replied to specifically said motherboards and LCDs, which I still maintain 99% of laptops fit that.

jjcon 4y ago
I think you're missing the point or are just uninformed. The parent comment said nearly all laptops have, 'storage, memory, WiFi and IO (or some combo of those) soldered to the motherboard' to which you replied that they are completely incorrect. What about that is completely incorrect? I replied seeing I had never seen swappable IO for starters. Apple alone accounts for >8% laptop marketshare (higher in 1st world countries) and is one prime example of everything soldered to the motherboard. Thats all without even mentioning the difficulty of repairs on most machines these days. Finally when it comes to upgradability you can't upgrade the motherboards/cpus on 99% of laptops, certainly not to hardware that came out after the laptop shipped, you can on the framework (now selling 12th gen intel cpus).
- washadjeffmad 4y ago
  Framework IO is extendable within the chassis. If the TB ports fail, the IO dongles will not work. What makes Framework's design different or superior to Apple in this regard?
  - jjcon 4y ago
    > What makes Framework's design different or superior to Apple in this regard? 1) You can change your IO as standards change or as your workflow changes 2) The point of failure for IO is at the point where the cable plugs in and creates stress, this point of stress is now separate from the mainboard - like in a desktop you have 20 pin USB ports on the motherboard that you wire your case up to - yeah that port could fail but it is far less likely to 3) If the mainboard IO fails you don't also have to replace your storage, wifi, ram etc
    - washadjeffmad 4y ago
      Is that really different from dongles? Since you can't buy them from third parties (yet), it sounds like they're just selling you your ports. Even Apple doesn't do that anymore. Stress is also negligible, or TB ports are not fragile. We have a few thousand MacBook Pros and almost no mainboard replacements are due to port damage. This doesn't make Apple better, just noting. Fair enough, but we've had no cases of TB controller failure that weren't covered under warranty. Framework's warranty as-is is insufficient for enterprise or commercial adoption. Swappable RAM, wifi, storage, etc are not unique to Framework (and Framework is more limited in internal ports than many older devices).
- joenathanone 4y ago
  >I had never seen swappable IO for starters. Cool as they may be these are just dongles that integrate into the chassis, the exact same can be accomplished with a dock or dongle. Additionally IMO most consumers could count on 1 hand how many times they have used external IO, a person might use a flash drive once in a blue moon, but everything is in the cloud now. >Finally when it comes to upgradability you can't upgrade the motherboards/cpus on 99% of laptops, certainly not to hardware that came out after the laptop shipped, you can on the framework (now selling 12th gen intel cpus). While this is true and awesome, I would like to see if they are able to continue this when the upgrade is more of a major shift, for example to compete with the M1 we could see a shift to integrated HBM, and WiFi in Intel and AMD CPUs.
tomrod 4y ago
> The comment I replied to specifically said motherboards and LCDs, which I still maintain 99% of laptops fit that. Apologies. In that specific subset you are correct, but I meant more broadly and was loose on my verbiage.

jjcon 4y ago

I think you're missing the point or are just uninformed. The parent comment said nearly all laptops have, 'storage, memory, WiFi and IO (or some combo of those) soldered to the motherboard' to which you replied that they are completely incorrect. What about that is completely incorrect? I replied seeing I had never seen swappable IO for starters. Apple alone accounts for >8% laptop marketshare (higher in 1st world countries) and is one prime example of everything soldered to the motherboard. Thats all without even mentioning the difficulty of repairs on most machines these days. Finally when it comes to upgradability you can't upgrade the motherboards/cpus on 99% of laptops, certainly not to hardware that came out after the laptop shipped, you can on the framework (now selling 12th gen intel cpus).

washadjeffmad 4y ago
Framework IO is extendable within the chassis. If the TB ports fail, the IO dongles will not work. What makes Framework's design different or superior to Apple in this regard?
- jjcon 4y ago
  > What makes Framework's design different or superior to Apple in this regard? 1) You can change your IO as standards change or as your workflow changes 2) The point of failure for IO is at the point where the cable plugs in and creates stress, this point of stress is now separate from the mainboard - like in a desktop you have 20 pin USB ports on the motherboard that you wire your case up to - yeah that port could fail but it is far less likely to 3) If the mainboard IO fails you don't also have to replace your storage, wifi, ram etc
  - washadjeffmad 4y ago
    Is that really different from dongles? Since you can't buy them from third parties (yet), it sounds like they're just selling you your ports. Even Apple doesn't do that anymore. Stress is also negligible, or TB ports are not fragile. We have a few thousand MacBook Pros and almost no mainboard replacements are due to port damage. This doesn't make Apple better, just noting. Fair enough, but we've had no cases of TB controller failure that weren't covered under warranty. Framework's warranty as-is is insufficient for enterprise or commercial adoption. Swappable RAM, wifi, storage, etc are not unique to Framework (and Framework is more limited in internal ports than many older devices).
joenathanone 4y ago
>I had never seen swappable IO for starters. Cool as they may be these are just dongles that integrate into the chassis, the exact same can be accomplished with a dock or dongle. Additionally IMO most consumers could count on 1 hand how many times they have used external IO, a person might use a flash drive once in a blue moon, but everything is in the cloud now. >Finally when it comes to upgradability you can't upgrade the motherboards/cpus on 99% of laptops, certainly not to hardware that came out after the laptop shipped, you can on the framework (now selling 12th gen intel cpus). While this is true and awesome, I would like to see if they are able to continue this when the upgrade is more of a major shift, for example to compete with the M1 we could see a shift to integrated HBM, and WiFi in Intel and AMD CPUs.

tomrod 4y ago

> The comment I replied to specifically said motherboards and LCDs, which I still maintain 99% of laptops fit that. Apologies. In that specific subset you are correct, but I meant more broadly and was loose on my verbiage.