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I like it. He wants his company to work a certain way. His communication is clear and as he states they can work at other companies if they want. Personally I

by xupybd 4y ago

I like it. He wants his company to work a certain way. His communication is clear and as he states they can work at other companies if they want. Personally I prefer meeting and collaborating in person. I find the bandwidth is much higher. For some focus work it doesn't matter but there is always an element that requires communication. You don't change the world without ruffling a few feathers.

iancmceachern 4y ago
Yeah but I want to get paid for my time. Working anything above 40 I a salaried position makes no sense. Cultures that are built on this exploitation of workers and flat out EXPECT an AVERAGE of over 40 hours are exploitive, simple as that.
- xupybd 4y ago
  I'm sure Tesla execs get paid enough to cover the extra hours they do. You are right it's about what's worth the exchange to you. For me I'll work an extra 30% time happily if I'm earning an extra 30% in income. Even if that's not spelt out in my contract.
  - iancmceachern 4y ago
    And I've happily made that trade in the past as well. The point I'm making is it doesn't sound like they have the option to say no to the extra time and pay. It's not a choice at that point, and it stops being a good thing too. If it's like overtime or a bonus where folks that choose (operative word is choose) to do that they can get more pay in return. If they choose not to, not. That's not this. He's literally saying of you want to stay at tesla this is it, you must work the extra hours. That's not good and it's not how you maximize your workforce. It's how you churn through talent and spit it out.
    - kube-system 4y ago
      Choosing a different job is how you choose different hours. There are few jobs where you get to pick how many hours you want to work, especially when salaried.
      - iancmceachern 4y ago
        Agreed on the first part, not on the second. There are in fact many. Many, most companies really allow people to work more or less as their life allows. It's actually quite common in the regular community (not as much among hustle culture startup folks like the average HN reader)
        kube-system 4y ago
        It depends on the job. In jobs constrained by labor supply, there’s a good bit of flexibility. If you do a rank-and-file job at a megacorp and there’s a stack of resumes on your boss’s desk, you show up when you’re scheduled or you get replaced.
        iancmceachern 4y ago
        "If you do a rank-and-file job at a megacorp and there’s a stack of resumes on your boss’s desk, you show up when you’re scheduled or you get replaced." I agree that this is a simple reality that does happen all too often, but also want to point out that it's not right, and often against the law. Workers time off, sick time, etc. is protected by law. Tehhnically businesses can't fire people for taking time off. I get that it happens all the time, but it shouldn't.
        kube-system 4y ago
        Time off doesn't really enable anyone to work a different schedule, as mentioned above. If your boss wants 40hrs/week and you want to work 30hrs/week, you’ll burn two weeks of time off in 8 weeks.
        4y ago
omoikane 4y ago
I also like the "communication is clear" part. People might not like the content that is being communicated but at least it's clear and not infused with corpspeak. See also: "Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30128061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30128061
viraptor 4y ago
> as he states they can work at other companies if they want. That's not what he states though, or it would be ruthless but not controversial. He's stating people working remotely are pretending to work which says more about him and the management structure than his employees. Basically you can have the opinion that working remotely is less effective and not be a dick about it. He chose the other option.

by xupybd 4y ago

iancmceachern 4y ago

Yeah but I want to get paid for my time. Working anything above 40 I a salaried position makes no sense. Cultures that are built on this exploitation of workers and flat out EXPECT an AVERAGE of over 40 hours are exploitive, simple as that.

xupybd 4y ago
I'm sure Tesla execs get paid enough to cover the extra hours they do. You are right it's about what's worth the exchange to you. For me I'll work an extra 30% time happily if I'm earning an extra 30% in income. Even if that's not spelt out in my contract.
- iancmceachern 4y ago
  And I've happily made that trade in the past as well. The point I'm making is it doesn't sound like they have the option to say no to the extra time and pay. It's not a choice at that point, and it stops being a good thing too. If it's like overtime or a bonus where folks that choose (operative word is choose) to do that they can get more pay in return. If they choose not to, not. That's not this. He's literally saying of you want to stay at tesla this is it, you must work the extra hours. That's not good and it's not how you maximize your workforce. It's how you churn through talent and spit it out.
  - kube-system 4y ago
    Choosing a different job is how you choose different hours. There are few jobs where you get to pick how many hours you want to work, especially when salaried.
    - iancmceachern 4y ago
      Agreed on the first part, not on the second. There are in fact many. Many, most companies really allow people to work more or less as their life allows. It's actually quite common in the regular community (not as much among hustle culture startup folks like the average HN reader)
      - kube-system 4y ago
        It depends on the job. In jobs constrained by labor supply, there’s a good bit of flexibility. If you do a rank-and-file job at a megacorp and there’s a stack of resumes on your boss’s desk, you show up when you’re scheduled or you get replaced.
        iancmceachern 4y ago
        "If you do a rank-and-file job at a megacorp and there’s a stack of resumes on your boss’s desk, you show up when you’re scheduled or you get replaced." I agree that this is a simple reality that does happen all too often, but also want to point out that it's not right, and often against the law. Workers time off, sick time, etc. is protected by law. Tehhnically businesses can't fire people for taking time off. I get that it happens all the time, but it shouldn't.
        kube-system 4y ago
        Time off doesn't really enable anyone to work a different schedule, as mentioned above. If your boss wants 40hrs/week and you want to work 30hrs/week, you’ll burn two weeks of time off in 8 weeks.
        4y ago

omoikane 4y ago

I also like the "communication is clear" part. People might not like the content that is being communicated but at least it's clear and not infused with corpspeak. See also: "Nuanced communication usually doesn't work at scale" - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30128061 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=30128061

viraptor 4y ago

> as he states they can work at other companies if they want. That's not what he states though, or it would be ruthless but not controversial. He's stating people working remotely are pretending to work which says more about him and the management structure than his employees. Basically you can have the opinion that working remotely is less effective and not be a dick about it. He chose the other option.