3 ms·

This last point, and replies to this all seem to talk about the research industry. But it has been my experience that this same dynamic of being “less than” exi

This last point, and replies to this all seem to talk about the research industry. But it has been my experience that this same dynamic of being “less than” exists in any industry that is not primarily software. I am a mechanical engineer by degree, but a software engineer by 30 years of practice. That has allowed me to thrice straddle the divide where I worked on software that was not just software for softwares sake, but rather as a value add addendum/enablement to an institution whose roots were in more real-worldly devices. I also spent time on the other side of the divide working twice for companies whose primary product was software. This “less than” is a very real thing. Software is still a very new thing relatively and it’s taken over the world in just 30 years time. The power dynamics, entrenched in generations haven’t had time to rebalance. I’ve seen this run the other way as well. Where companies that are primarily software, look down on the other disciplines that participate, a necessary evil, but resented. I have yet to find a company/institution where the trifecta of mechanical, electrical, and software is balanced in mutual respect. If one such exists and you are looking for someone that would love to work in that environment, drop me a line. I’m skeptical that there are any. It seems one discipline or the other always triumphs and tramples the others down. On off axis variant of Pournelle’s iron law of bureaucracy .

NoahKAndrews 4y ago
I sent you an email too, but my employer REV Robotics definitely fits this description in my opinion, especially in regards to the software team's collaboration with the electrical team.
rytill 4y ago
Just curious, have you sampled many robotics companies? I have worked with dozens and it seems like there are some with well-balanced power dynamics between mechanical-electrical-software.
deleted 4y ago
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fburnaby 4y ago
I believe this has less to do with software in particular and just generally reflects the typical dynamics of the line/staff distinction. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_and_line https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_and_line
softfalcon 4y ago
I have to agree that in some environments you can see comp sci majors picking on anyone who isn’t part of traditional “software”. I switched from engineering into comp sci at my university and I can safely say that the elitism for software was stoked by the elitism of engineering. While I was in engineering, everyone bragged about how they were going to get “The iron ring” (a thing we give to only engineers in Canada). When I switched over to comp sci, all my old engineering buddies would say to me, “yeah, but you don’t get the ring” like it meant everything. After I graduated, I noticed the comp sci “software” folks didn’t like engineering folks much (especially new grads). When I asked why, they shared similar stories to mine. The engineers and their pumped up pride at my local university had hurt their relation to other fields by being arrogant. I’m not trying to justify this kind of prejudice, but the reasons it happens are fairly obvious to me. It’s sad cause all of us are so similar in our trades and will likely end up doing similar work as well.

NoahKAndrews 4y ago

I sent you an email too, but my employer REV Robotics definitely fits this description in my opinion, especially in regards to the software team's collaboration with the electrical team.

rytill 4y ago

Just curious, have you sampled many robotics companies? I have worked with dozens and it seems like there are some with well-balanced power dynamics between mechanical-electrical-software.

deleted 4y ago

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fburnaby 4y ago

I believe this has less to do with software in particular and just generally reflects the typical dynamics of the line/staff distinction. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_and_line https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Staff_and_line

softfalcon 4y ago

I have to agree that in some environments you can see comp sci majors picking on anyone who isn’t part of traditional “software”. I switched from engineering into comp sci at my university and I can safely say that the elitism for software was stoked by the elitism of engineering. While I was in engineering, everyone bragged about how they were going to get “The iron ring” (a thing we give to only engineers in Canada). When I switched over to comp sci, all my old engineering buddies would say to me, “yeah, but you don’t get the ring” like it meant everything. After I graduated, I noticed the comp sci “software” folks didn’t like engineering folks much (especially new grads). When I asked why, they shared similar stories to mine. The engineers and their pumped up pride at my local university had hurt their relation to other fields by being arrogant. I’m not trying to justify this kind of prejudice, but the reasons it happens are fairly obvious to me. It’s sad cause all of us are so similar in our trades and will likely end up doing similar work as well.