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It’s difficult for me to feel bad for these institutions. They jacked up tuitions and caused an entire generation of people to carry lifetime of crippling debt.

by lvl102 4y ago

JoeJonathan 4y ago
It's not like universities are just lining their pockets. I'm a humanities professor at a small liberal arts college with a high tuition, and we struggle to pay professors fair wages (when compared to peer institutions, which doesn't even account for differences in cost of living, and we're in an HCOL city). I do not fully understand the economics of higher education—they're complex and often opaque—but a few things to keep in mind: 1. Tuition seems absurd, but very few students pay the sticker price. At my institution, average cost after aid is 39% of average cost before aid, and less than some of the private K-12 schools in this city. 2. "These institutions" are not a monolith. See above—especially when it comes to prestigious schools, many students aren't paying close to sticker price. 3. Families and students expect much more from colleges than they did a few decades ago, both in terms of facilities and staffing. I don't know if anyone's done a study of student wellness center staff sizes, but I wouldn't be surprised if they doubled over the past two years. 4. The sciences (and things like conservatories) are particularly expensive because of equipment/lab costs. Someone has to pay for all this. I think more should come from the corporate America (not sure how), which benefits greatly from these programs, but I'd venture to guess most comes from tuition and government grants.
- lvl102 4y ago
  Here’s my counter argument: public high schools do it for far less. Outside of maybe 40 research institutes in the US, the rest offer about the same education as a good public high school. It’s really not unheard of to hear college grads say they got better education at their high schools vs college. Secondly, these schools are TAX EXEMPT. They use endowments to basically buy buildings all the time. A great example of this is NYU. Really a mediocre school but happens to be the biggest real estate player in one of the most expensive markets in the world.
- cwmoreiras 4y ago
  Normally I wouldn't nitpick, but since you posted that 39% as a hard number, how much of the 61% remaining (the "aid") takes the form of grants, and how much of it is loans? I disagree with most financial aid and admissions offices, who seem to regard loans as "aid"
wmeredith 4y ago
> They jacked up tuitions and caused an entire generation of people to carry lifetime of crippling debt. Please dig deeper if you care about this issue. My wife works at a state school and by far the overwhelming factor on rising tuition has been the systematic defunding of state schools since the 1980's. Our state university currently receives about 20% of what it once did from the state 40 years ago.
- cudgy 4y ago
  However, I bet the buildings are fancy, the gym is lavish, and the cafeteria looks like a upscale food court with chefs to cook your custom ramen or stir fry. I also bet there are twice as many administrators as there were 40 years ago and far more expenses to maintain the high end buildings and sporting venues. More schools, more competition means more administrators, more marketing, more fancy dorms and facilities to appeal to parents and students. More money.
  - culopatin 4y ago
    And rock climbing walls, stadiums, courts, parking enforcement tech, regulations over regulations of the smallest crap. Imagine if the school was just a building with rooms for teachers to meet with students and labs to do research in. Maybe it wouldn’t be fun for the sporty people and their name wouldn’t be in a cheerleader chant but it would be very focused and efficient
    - annyeonghada 4y ago
      You described University in every European country that I know of. A building, classrooms, teachers, exams.
      - inglor_cz 4y ago
        Yeah, this is crazy for an European to read. Having such amenities on the campus is an expensive luxury. Focus on education/research and let everyone practice their hobbies externally, according to their wants, needs and personal budgets. Studying at an American campus is like buying an expensive timeshare.

It’s difficult for me to feel bad for these institutions. They jacked up tuitions and caused an entire generation of people to carry lifetime of crippling debt.

by lvl102 4y ago

It’s difficult for me to feel bad for these institutions. They jacked up tuitions and caused an entire generation of people to carry lifetime of crippling debt.

JoeJonathan 4y ago

It's not like universities are just lining their pockets. I'm a humanities professor at a small liberal arts college with a high tuition, and we struggle to pay professors fair wages (when compared to peer institutions, which doesn't even account for differences in cost of living, and we're in an HCOL city). I do not fully understand the economics of higher education—they're complex and often opaque—but a few things to keep in mind: 1. Tuition seems absurd, but very few students pay the sticker price. At my institution, average cost after aid is 39% of average cost before aid, and less than some of the private K-12 schools in this city. 2. "These institutions" are not a monolith. See above—especially when it comes to prestigious schools, many students aren't paying close to sticker price. 3. Families and students expect much more from colleges than they did a few decades ago, both in terms of facilities and staffing. I don't know if anyone's done a study of student wellness center staff sizes, but I wouldn't be surprised if they doubled over the past two years. 4. The sciences (and things like conservatories) are particularly expensive because of equipment/lab costs. Someone has to pay for all this. I think more should come from the corporate America (not sure how), which benefits greatly from these programs, but I'd venture to guess most comes from tuition and government grants.

lvl102 4y ago
Here’s my counter argument: public high schools do it for far less. Outside of maybe 40 research institutes in the US, the rest offer about the same education as a good public high school. It’s really not unheard of to hear college grads say they got better education at their high schools vs college. Secondly, these schools are TAX EXEMPT. They use endowments to basically buy buildings all the time. A great example of this is NYU. Really a mediocre school but happens to be the biggest real estate player in one of the most expensive markets in the world.
cwmoreiras 4y ago
Normally I wouldn't nitpick, but since you posted that 39% as a hard number, how much of the 61% remaining (the "aid") takes the form of grants, and how much of it is loans? I disagree with most financial aid and admissions offices, who seem to regard loans as "aid"

wmeredith 4y ago

> They jacked up tuitions and caused an entire generation of people to carry lifetime of crippling debt. Please dig deeper if you care about this issue. My wife works at a state school and by far the overwhelming factor on rising tuition has been the systematic defunding of state schools since the 1980's. Our state university currently receives about 20% of what it once did from the state 40 years ago.

cudgy 4y ago
However, I bet the buildings are fancy, the gym is lavish, and the cafeteria looks like a upscale food court with chefs to cook your custom ramen or stir fry. I also bet there are twice as many administrators as there were 40 years ago and far more expenses to maintain the high end buildings and sporting venues. More schools, more competition means more administrators, more marketing, more fancy dorms and facilities to appeal to parents and students. More money.
- culopatin 4y ago
  And rock climbing walls, stadiums, courts, parking enforcement tech, regulations over regulations of the smallest crap. Imagine if the school was just a building with rooms for teachers to meet with students and labs to do research in. Maybe it wouldn’t be fun for the sporty people and their name wouldn’t be in a cheerleader chant but it would be very focused and efficient
  - annyeonghada 4y ago
    You described University in every European country that I know of. A building, classrooms, teachers, exams.
    - inglor_cz 4y ago
      Yeah, this is crazy for an European to read. Having such amenities on the campus is an expensive luxury. Focus on education/research and let everyone practice their hobbies externally, according to their wants, needs and personal budgets. Studying at an American campus is like buying an expensive timeshare.