6 ms·

Here in the US, I expect a lot of K-12 teachers to be leaving the field. The additional demands created by Covid were the last straw for many. Their employment

Here in the US, I expect a lot of K-12 teachers to be leaving the field. The additional demands created by Covid were the last straw for many. Their employment contracts are such that they have to give months of notice, so I expect all to be quiet until August, then panic everywhere as slots can't be filled.

gnicholas 4y ago
Why wouldn't you have expected them to leave last summer? I have a couple friends here in CA who did.
- dhosek 4y ago
  I'm guessing the hope that the 2021–22 school year would be better.
  - bakuninsbart 4y ago
    Not sure if this is the same across the pond, but here in Germany this rings true. Most covid restrictions are gone, but a lot of teachers have burnout or similar problems, and some quit already during covid. This means the teachers left need to pick up the work of these colleagues, and schools and ministries are slow at taking on new teachers. At the same time, there seems to be a huge problem with the "covid generation" of teenagers, in that a lot of them a) don't want to put in the work and b) don't understand how school-work with physical presence really works. There is now a 2 year gap in physical education for high schoolers, during one of the most important times of their education. I also see this now with the new Bachelor students in my department, professors are really confused by complaints like "this was only said during lecture, how should I know".
blululu 4y ago
(Public School) Teacher pay is largely structured to encourage retention. The salary is pretty lousy if you only do it for 2 years, but if you stick around for 40 years it is a well paying job in most States. The pay increases for seniority and the compounding interest of pensions add up to a very good salary. There is also the other problem that a lot of states require an education degree to teach in public schools which is somewhat specialized. A lot of mid-career educators that I have spoken with find that their skills don't really qualify them for a lot of jobs and becoming a private school teacher typically means a pay cut.
- munk-a 4y ago
  To be honest though - even rather senior teachers in the states can expect a large pay bump if they emigrate to Canada. There is pretty decent competition to get into the teacher's union up here but due to the much more reasonable salaries for a career that most people enter due to their love of the field folks are happy to stay in the public side of education.
  - brianwawok 4y ago
    And in college, the situation is reversed. My econ prof was from Canada and told us all the time what a better racket the US is to make money. All while making us buy a $90 book that he wrote and changed editions yearly. At least he was honest that he was robbing us blind.
- Pulcinella 4y ago
  It’s literally not structured to encourage retention, definitely not at the same school. Those salary schedules on district websites? Those are for new hires. So someone with 40 years of experience in one school will be paid less than someone hired with 40 years. Raises aren’t at all guaranteed each year and even when you do get them, they often don’t match the salary schedule of someone hired new to the district. Also 40 years of experience doesn’t pay much in general. I was paid more as a new associate developer than I would have with 40 years of experience and a masters degree as a teacher. Pensions don’t have compounding interest, they are defined benefits. And often they are in place of social security (though the amount you pay in as a teacher is basically equivalent to social security taxes). They can be good, but it’s risky and depends on the state. Lots of states like to raid the pension fund and then promise to make it up later (but rarely do). Cutting pensions is also a popular move to score political points, so it’s possible that you could always end up with little to nothing by the time you retire.
  - cudgy 4y ago
    “Those salary schedules on district websites? Those are for new hires. So someone with 40 years of experience in one school will be paid less than someone hired with 40 years.” This is not true in any state I am aware of. Salaries are very rigid and all teachers and staff with the same years of creditable experience and educational status make the same amount regardless of new hire status. Some counties may offer extra pay for performance or extra duties like coaching or summer school, but it is usually not a significant amount.
bsder 4y ago
Teachers are not waiting. I know of several who retired mid-year. That NEVER used to happen. Covid didn't break their back--shitty parents did. Covid just ran the parental shittiness meter up to max. And, to put a cherry on top, practically all teachers now have multiple students who actually had a parent die. In a normal year, that would be rare and that child would get lots of counseling. With Covid--it's too common and the teachers have to deal with it. Just like everything else. And people wonder why teachers are quitting ...
- muaytimbo 4y ago
  Studies show that students didn't learn almost at all during covid (1). Understandable that remote learning likely isn't good in general and that teachers were not trained to teach in this setting but parents might have realized their children were not learning at all and fair or not placed this blame on the teachers. 1. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2022376118 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2022376118
  - zach_garwood 4y ago
    Parents always blame teachers when they should (almost) always blame administrators.
    - akimball 4y ago
      Parents who don't effect a good education for their children should first of all blame themselves, as it is a core part of their responsibility to their children and their community.
- samatman 4y ago
  > And, to put a cherry on top, practically all teachers now have multiple students who actually had a parent die. This can't possibly be the case. 67,366 adults between the ages of 18 and 49 have died (of COVID) in the US during the entire pandemic. There are 25 million children of primary school age in the US. Why explains this discrepancy? Social media. Every teacher has seen other teachers mourning the death of parents on social media, and that feels like something that actually happens to you. But no. It is absolutely not the case that practically all teachers have multiple students who lost parents to COVID. The math is completely off.
crmd 4y ago
My sister got a masters in education and taught for 5 years in the NYC school system, hating every moment of it. A big SaaS company took a risk on her and hired her as a salesperson. She is crushing it, working from home, and occasionally reminiscing about the night and day difference in well-being between working at schools vs a real company.

gnicholas 4y ago

Why wouldn't you have expected them to leave last summer? I have a couple friends here in CA who did.

dhosek 4y ago
I'm guessing the hope that the 2021–22 school year would be better.
- bakuninsbart 4y ago
  Not sure if this is the same across the pond, but here in Germany this rings true. Most covid restrictions are gone, but a lot of teachers have burnout or similar problems, and some quit already during covid. This means the teachers left need to pick up the work of these colleagues, and schools and ministries are slow at taking on new teachers. At the same time, there seems to be a huge problem with the "covid generation" of teenagers, in that a lot of them a) don't want to put in the work and b) don't understand how school-work with physical presence really works. There is now a 2 year gap in physical education for high schoolers, during one of the most important times of their education. I also see this now with the new Bachelor students in my department, professors are really confused by complaints like "this was only said during lecture, how should I know".

blululu 4y ago

(Public School) Teacher pay is largely structured to encourage retention. The salary is pretty lousy if you only do it for 2 years, but if you stick around for 40 years it is a well paying job in most States. The pay increases for seniority and the compounding interest of pensions add up to a very good salary. There is also the other problem that a lot of states require an education degree to teach in public schools which is somewhat specialized. A lot of mid-career educators that I have spoken with find that their skills don't really qualify them for a lot of jobs and becoming a private school teacher typically means a pay cut.

munk-a 4y ago
To be honest though - even rather senior teachers in the states can expect a large pay bump if they emigrate to Canada. There is pretty decent competition to get into the teacher's union up here but due to the much more reasonable salaries for a career that most people enter due to their love of the field folks are happy to stay in the public side of education.
- brianwawok 4y ago
  And in college, the situation is reversed. My econ prof was from Canada and told us all the time what a better racket the US is to make money. All while making us buy a $90 book that he wrote and changed editions yearly. At least he was honest that he was robbing us blind.
Pulcinella 4y ago
It’s literally not structured to encourage retention, definitely not at the same school. Those salary schedules on district websites? Those are for new hires. So someone with 40 years of experience in one school will be paid less than someone hired with 40 years. Raises aren’t at all guaranteed each year and even when you do get them, they often don’t match the salary schedule of someone hired new to the district. Also 40 years of experience doesn’t pay much in general. I was paid more as a new associate developer than I would have with 40 years of experience and a masters degree as a teacher. Pensions don’t have compounding interest, they are defined benefits. And often they are in place of social security (though the amount you pay in as a teacher is basically equivalent to social security taxes). They can be good, but it’s risky and depends on the state. Lots of states like to raid the pension fund and then promise to make it up later (but rarely do). Cutting pensions is also a popular move to score political points, so it’s possible that you could always end up with little to nothing by the time you retire.
- cudgy 4y ago
  “Those salary schedules on district websites? Those are for new hires. So someone with 40 years of experience in one school will be paid less than someone hired with 40 years.” This is not true in any state I am aware of. Salaries are very rigid and all teachers and staff with the same years of creditable experience and educational status make the same amount regardless of new hire status. Some counties may offer extra pay for performance or extra duties like coaching or summer school, but it is usually not a significant amount.

bsder 4y ago

Teachers are not waiting. I know of several who retired mid-year. That NEVER used to happen. Covid didn't break their back--shitty parents did. Covid just ran the parental shittiness meter up to max. And, to put a cherry on top, practically all teachers now have multiple students who actually had a parent die. In a normal year, that would be rare and that child would get lots of counseling. With Covid--it's too common and the teachers have to deal with it. Just like everything else. And people wonder why teachers are quitting ...

muaytimbo 4y ago
Studies show that students didn't learn almost at all during covid (1). Understandable that remote learning likely isn't good in general and that teachers were not trained to teach in this setting but parents might have realized their children were not learning at all and fair or not placed this blame on the teachers. 1. https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2022376118 https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2022376118
- zach_garwood 4y ago
  Parents always blame teachers when they should (almost) always blame administrators.
  - akimball 4y ago
    Parents who don't effect a good education for their children should first of all blame themselves, as it is a core part of their responsibility to their children and their community.
samatman 4y ago
> And, to put a cherry on top, practically all teachers now have multiple students who actually had a parent die. This can't possibly be the case. 67,366 adults between the ages of 18 and 49 have died (of COVID) in the US during the entire pandemic. There are 25 million children of primary school age in the US. Why explains this discrepancy? Social media. Every teacher has seen other teachers mourning the death of parents on social media, and that feels like something that actually happens to you. But no. It is absolutely not the case that practically all teachers have multiple students who lost parents to COVID. The math is completely off.

crmd 4y ago

My sister got a masters in education and taught for 5 years in the NYC school system, hating every moment of it. A big SaaS company took a risk on her and hired her as a salesperson. She is crushing it, working from home, and occasionally reminiscing about the night and day difference in well-being between working at schools vs a real company.