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They allow maps other than Apple Maps and chat apps other than iMessage to drain the user's battery, and those apps could be written in React Native, Flutter, o

They allow maps other than Apple Maps and chat apps other than iMessage to drain the user's battery, and those apps could be written in React Native, Flutter, or any other battery-draining non-native framework. That justification is specious.

dt2m 4y ago
At the time the argument was pretty sound as it relates to all apps using web views, not just browsers. Imagine how much worse the iOS experience would be if most developers used an off-the-shelf shoddy HTML rendering engine because it supported a single edge case feature they needed in their app.
- mtomweb 4y ago
  >iOS experience would be if most developers used an off-the-shelf shoddy HTML rendering engine That's exactly what we have now. Developers are forced by anti-competitive rules to use by far the most buggy browser available. I've yet to talk to anyone who actually relies on Safari to deliver rich UIs not run into significant problems.
kitsunesoba 4y ago
On average, things like map apps aren't used anywhere near as frequently as web browsers, especially if you include webviews in apps. The browser eating your battery for lunch has the potential of being device-ruining levels of bad. For M-series Macs, this is somewhat mitigated by the sheer size of the batteries those have – even if Chrome docks your battery life by a few hours you're still looking at a full work day without having to plug in. That's a lot less true for phones, especially for smaller models like the iPhone SE and iPhone Mini, which can be taken from manageable to untenable by a frequently used battery hog.
simonh 4y ago
A browser is more than just an app, it’s an application runtime that executes arbitrary code downloaded from the internet. It’s the closest thing iOS has to an unregulated open App Store, that happens to only run apps written in JavaScript. With native apps Apple has the opportunity to inspect and profile them before they hit the phone, and pull them if necessary, but not with web apps. As such the only way Apple has to manage the power and compute consumption of such apps is through control of their runtime environment - the browser. I’m not saying their policy is right or wrong, but that’s the argument.
- pathartl 4y ago
  You've hit the nail on the head. So many jailbreak exploits have been done because of Webkit exploits. Allowing other engines on the phone would make them lose control over their walled garden.
  - mtomweb 4y ago
    To mount a believable defense against third-party browser engines, Apple would need to demonstrate that their browser is more secure than rival browsers. In order to persuasively argue a need to ban all rivals, Apple would need to prove that iOS Safari ships and delivers security patches faster, has significantly better security, and that the harm to users from allowing rival browsers is significantly worse than the harm caused by lack of competition. They would need to prove this for each individual browser / browser engine. The evidence points that Safari's security is in fact worse than either Chrome/Edge or Firefox's so that's going to be a hard sell to even prove they are equivalent. Intentional jailbreaking is a problem for Apple, not for Apple's users.

dt2m 4y ago

At the time the argument was pretty sound as it relates to all apps using web views, not just browsers. Imagine how much worse the iOS experience would be if most developers used an off-the-shelf shoddy HTML rendering engine because it supported a single edge case feature they needed in their app.

mtomweb 4y ago
>iOS experience would be if most developers used an off-the-shelf shoddy HTML rendering engine That's exactly what we have now. Developers are forced by anti-competitive rules to use by far the most buggy browser available. I've yet to talk to anyone who actually relies on Safari to deliver rich UIs not run into significant problems.

kitsunesoba 4y ago

On average, things like map apps aren't used anywhere near as frequently as web browsers, especially if you include webviews in apps. The browser eating your battery for lunch has the potential of being device-ruining levels of bad. For M-series Macs, this is somewhat mitigated by the sheer size of the batteries those have – even if Chrome docks your battery life by a few hours you're still looking at a full work day without having to plug in. That's a lot less true for phones, especially for smaller models like the iPhone SE and iPhone Mini, which can be taken from manageable to untenable by a frequently used battery hog.

simonh 4y ago

A browser is more than just an app, it’s an application runtime that executes arbitrary code downloaded from the internet. It’s the closest thing iOS has to an unregulated open App Store, that happens to only run apps written in JavaScript. With native apps Apple has the opportunity to inspect and profile them before they hit the phone, and pull them if necessary, but not with web apps. As such the only way Apple has to manage the power and compute consumption of such apps is through control of their runtime environment - the browser. I’m not saying their policy is right or wrong, but that’s the argument.

pathartl 4y ago
You've hit the nail on the head. So many jailbreak exploits have been done because of Webkit exploits. Allowing other engines on the phone would make them lose control over their walled garden.
- mtomweb 4y ago
  To mount a believable defense against third-party browser engines, Apple would need to demonstrate that their browser is more secure than rival browsers. In order to persuasively argue a need to ban all rivals, Apple would need to prove that iOS Safari ships and delivers security patches faster, has significantly better security, and that the harm to users from allowing rival browsers is significantly worse than the harm caused by lack of competition. They would need to prove this for each individual browser / browser engine. The evidence points that Safari's security is in fact worse than either Chrome/Edge or Firefox's so that's going to be a hard sell to even prove they are equivalent. Intentional jailbreaking is a problem for Apple, not for Apple's users.