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Apple’s Safari browser now has more than 1B users

14 points by carlycue 4y ago

pathartl 4y ago
Not surprising with a supposed 1.8B active iOS devices and no way to run another browser engine. I haven't daily driven macOS in a few years... from when I last used Safari it was too minimalistic and the browser features lagged behind longer than I needed as a frontend dev.
- brundolf 4y ago
  On my personal MacBook I use Safari as a daily driver. It's mostly good, maybe once a week I use an exotic web app that I have to switch over to Firefox for, though for nontrivial web development I still use FF or Chromium because their tools are better
  - ask_b123 4y ago
    I'd rather use Safari than other browsers in my MacBook, but I can't use uBlock Origin so I use Firefox. PS: I read the title as Safari now having more than 18 users and I thought it was a joke. :|
- karmakaze 4y ago
  The desktop browser market share of Safari is 9.6% [0] https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/03/microsoft-edge-surpasses-safari-as-the-second-most-popular-desktop-browser/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/03/microsoft-edge-surpasses-safa...
rvz 4y ago
Unsurprising as to why Safari is second place. There is no way that Apple would allow another browser other than WebKit to drain the user's battery and instead force them to use only WebKit. Also not surprising to see Firefox usage declining so gradually that even Samsung Internet is about to over take it. Looks like these users are migrating to Chrome or Chrome-based browsers like Brave or Edge anyway.
- lern_too_spel 4y ago
  They allow maps other than Apple Maps and chat apps other than iMessage to drain the user's battery, and those apps could be written in React Native, Flutter, or any other battery-draining non-native framework. That justification is specious.
  - dt2m 4y ago
    At the time the argument was pretty sound as it relates to all apps using web views, not just browsers. Imagine how much worse the iOS experience would be if most developers used an off-the-shelf shoddy HTML rendering engine because it supported a single edge case feature they needed in their app.
    - mtomweb 4y ago
      >iOS experience would be if most developers used an off-the-shelf shoddy HTML rendering engine That's exactly what we have now. Developers are forced by anti-competitive rules to use by far the most buggy browser available. I've yet to talk to anyone who actually relies on Safari to deliver rich UIs not run into significant problems.
  - kitsunesoba 4y ago
    On average, things like map apps aren't used anywhere near as frequently as web browsers, especially if you include webviews in apps. The browser eating your battery for lunch has the potential of being device-ruining levels of bad. For M-series Macs, this is somewhat mitigated by the sheer size of the batteries those have – even if Chrome docks your battery life by a few hours you're still looking at a full work day without having to plug in. That's a lot less true for phones, especially for smaller models like the iPhone SE and iPhone Mini, which can be taken from manageable to untenable by a frequently used battery hog.
  - simonh 4y ago
    A browser is more than just an app, it’s an application runtime that executes arbitrary code downloaded from the internet. It’s the closest thing iOS has to an unregulated open App Store, that happens to only run apps written in JavaScript. With native apps Apple has the opportunity to inspect and profile them before they hit the phone, and pull them if necessary, but not with web apps. As such the only way Apple has to manage the power and compute consumption of such apps is through control of their runtime environment - the browser. I’m not saying their policy is right or wrong, but that’s the argument.
faebi 4y ago
I am mostly happy about iOS but damn, I really really want to run a real Firefox Nightly and all the lovely addons on my iPhone and iPad.
kitsunesoba 4y ago
I've been getting a ton of use out of Safari 15 tab groups feature in the past year or so. It's quite powerful for wrangling the gargantuan numbers of windows and tabs that come with having myriad projects and curiosities running in parallel. Really great for adding a space for tabs that are too ephemeral to incur more bookmark management overhead but can't closed right away either.
- woojoo666 4y ago
  For managing all my windows, tabs, and browsing journeys, I can't live without Session Buddy (chrome extension). Clean and simply UI, and nice features like search, merging sessions, export/import plain text or json, auto-saving sessions, etc. It's honestly one of my biggest barriers to switching to Firefox or Safari
phillipseamore 4y ago
The scary part is that just over 10% of Safari in use are outdated versions that the user can't upgrade since Safari isn't evergreen and updates are tied to the OS (and the user likely has a device that no longer gets updates). So much for privacy and security concerns.

14 points by carlycue 4y ago

Not surprising with a supposed 1.8B active iOS devices and no way to run another browser engine. I haven't daily driven macOS in a few years... from when I last used Safari it was too minimalistic and the browser features lagged behind longer than I needed as a frontend dev.

brundolf 4y ago
On my personal MacBook I use Safari as a daily driver. It's mostly good, maybe once a week I use an exotic web app that I have to switch over to Firefox for, though for nontrivial web development I still use FF or Chromium because their tools are better
- ask_b123 4y ago
  I'd rather use Safari than other browsers in my MacBook, but I can't use uBlock Origin so I use Firefox. PS: I read the title as Safari now having more than 18 users and I thought it was a joke. :|
karmakaze 4y ago
The desktop browser market share of Safari is 9.6% [0] https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/03/microsoft-edge-surpasses-safari-as-the-second-most-popular-desktop-browser/ https://9to5mac.com/2022/05/03/microsoft-edge-surpasses-safa...

rvz 4y ago

Unsurprising as to why Safari is second place. There is no way that Apple would allow another browser other than WebKit to drain the user's battery and instead force them to use only WebKit. Also not surprising to see Firefox usage declining so gradually that even Samsung Internet is about to over take it. Looks like these users are migrating to Chrome or Chrome-based browsers like Brave or Edge anyway.

lern_too_spel 4y ago
They allow maps other than Apple Maps and chat apps other than iMessage to drain the user's battery, and those apps could be written in React Native, Flutter, or any other battery-draining non-native framework. That justification is specious.
- dt2m 4y ago
  At the time the argument was pretty sound as it relates to all apps using web views, not just browsers. Imagine how much worse the iOS experience would be if most developers used an off-the-shelf shoddy HTML rendering engine because it supported a single edge case feature they needed in their app.
  - mtomweb 4y ago
    >iOS experience would be if most developers used an off-the-shelf shoddy HTML rendering engine That's exactly what we have now. Developers are forced by anti-competitive rules to use by far the most buggy browser available. I've yet to talk to anyone who actually relies on Safari to deliver rich UIs not run into significant problems.
- kitsunesoba 4y ago
  On average, things like map apps aren't used anywhere near as frequently as web browsers, especially if you include webviews in apps. The browser eating your battery for lunch has the potential of being device-ruining levels of bad. For M-series Macs, this is somewhat mitigated by the sheer size of the batteries those have – even if Chrome docks your battery life by a few hours you're still looking at a full work day without having to plug in. That's a lot less true for phones, especially for smaller models like the iPhone SE and iPhone Mini, which can be taken from manageable to untenable by a frequently used battery hog.
- simonh 4y ago
  A browser is more than just an app, it’s an application runtime that executes arbitrary code downloaded from the internet. It’s the closest thing iOS has to an unregulated open App Store, that happens to only run apps written in JavaScript. With native apps Apple has the opportunity to inspect and profile them before they hit the phone, and pull them if necessary, but not with web apps. As such the only way Apple has to manage the power and compute consumption of such apps is through control of their runtime environment - the browser. I’m not saying their policy is right or wrong, but that’s the argument.

faebi 4y ago

I am mostly happy about iOS but damn, I really really want to run a real Firefox Nightly and all the lovely addons on my iPhone and iPad.

kitsunesoba 4y ago

I've been getting a ton of use out of Safari 15 tab groups feature in the past year or so. It's quite powerful for wrangling the gargantuan numbers of windows and tabs that come with having myriad projects and curiosities running in parallel. Really great for adding a space for tabs that are too ephemeral to incur more bookmark management overhead but can't closed right away either.

woojoo666 4y ago
For managing all my windows, tabs, and browsing journeys, I can't live without Session Buddy (chrome extension). Clean and simply UI, and nice features like search, merging sessions, export/import plain text or json, auto-saving sessions, etc. It's honestly one of my biggest barriers to switching to Firefox or Safari

phillipseamore 4y ago

The scary part is that just over 10% of Safari in use are outdated versions that the user can't upgrade since Safari isn't evergreen and updates are tied to the OS (and the user likely has a device that no longer gets updates). So much for privacy and security concerns.