6 ms·

There are actually a ton of small farms being run around the US at least. i learned of this site from the Omivore's Dilemma: http://www.eatwild.com/products/ h

There are actually a ton of small farms being run around the US at least. i learned of this site from the Omivore's Dilemma: http://www.eatwild.com/products/ http://www.eatwild.com/products/ This kind of farming is doable, and can be profitable if run well. But it's labor intensive and doesn't scale as well as conventional farming operations. Running a small farm properly is a hell of a lot of work. A modern farm can allow farmers more off time and less effort.

piker 4y ago
What you are describing is an unprofitable business. You can make equilibrium money in it but you must supply the labour and get no time off. If you instead substituted yourself out and bought the labour there would be nothing left over.
- giantg2 4y ago
  In general I believe small-time farmers should provide at least some of rhe labor. Otherwise you end up with gentleman farmers just paying low wages to the actual labor.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
    How/why is this different from other businesses?
    - giantg2 4y ago
      The main point is that farm labor lacks the wage protections of almost any other business (except tip-driven ones).
- QuarterReptile 4y ago
  There is almost no chance that people who run small farms are evaluating on the same terms as you. They have found a sustaining lifestyle that lets them spend time outside, work at home, teach their kids to work, eat local, work with their neighbors, have seasonal variation in their lives, transact with their neighbors, have fun toys (seriously, if you've never driven a tractor...), have privacy, and on and on. It's a totally different path than a salaried job, and not because they couldn't how to code for big tech or work for a bank. It's a dedicated version of the FIRE idea that so many people with highly paid jobs aspire to.
  - wollsmoth 4y ago
    yeah it's a living. I'm sure there's some free time in the winter but you aren't exactly going to retire early.
    - QuarterReptile 4y ago
      I don't think you took away quite what I meant. The farming becomes a passion project or slow lifestyle or healthy living, or some other idea of all the stuff FIRE types are finally going to do after they reach their number. But instead of starting with a theoretically infinite runway, they launch right into the lives they want to live. The small farmers are willing to take the bet on themselves in exchange for not delaying the dream for 10+ years. Also, I'm really skeptical about the retire part of FIRE. It's less retire and more 'stop being the mythical human money optimizer machine of economics, which I show an uncommon knack for approximating.'
  - cwkoss 4y ago
    As society continues approaching cyberpunk dystopia, I wouldn't be surprised if office workers would start paying to stay and work on farms to reconnect with land/nature. Pick-yourself farms are big here - feels like the first step in that direction.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      > I wouldn't be surprised if office workers would start paying to stay and work on farms to reconnect with land/nature. This started long ago. Look it up. There's also WWOOF.
- wollsmoth 4y ago
  Sounds like it's a living, but in the work months it's a lot of manual work. You're not exactly getting rich quick. People will pay up for excellent produce/meat.
giantg2 4y ago
Most small farms require at least one spouse working an off-farm job for the benefits. It's pretty disgusting how little small-time farmers make (and general farm labor). There's a huge fight for $15/hr minimum wage, but this doesn't include farm labor. The people growing everyone's food can't even afford benefits without taking on a second full time job.
- randomdata 4y ago
  > It's pretty disgusting how little small-time farmers make As a small farmer, I think it's amazing how much I can make. For approximately a month's worth of work, I make more than my wife does working all year long. And I have 11 other months free to work in the tech industry.
  - giantg2 4y ago
    What do you do? It seems incredible that you can farm for only one month of the year with no related work the rest of it.
    - randomdata 4y ago
      Grain farmer. It is not one consecutive month, for what it is worth. The work is spread out over the year, but the total time spent each year is equivalent to about a month of work.
      - giantg2 4y ago
        Is this an unusual year? It seems the small grain farmers I know make just ok money in the past. Certainly not enough to pay for benefits and stuff. Or maybe your small farm is much larger than the small farms I know (~100ac).
        randomdata 4y ago
        This year is indeed unusual. If Mother Nature plays nice the farm might pay more than my tech job, but don't count your grain before its in the bin. A lot can go wrong quickly. Ultimately, profitability is entirely dependent on your debt load. You need to be a huge farmer if most of your profits are going to pay the bank, which is how a lot of farmers want to do it. I've been able to leverage my tech job income to keep my debts to a minimum, so I can make a lot more per acre. The downside is that, by not taking on many acres, my wealth will be much less in the end than another farmer in my cohort who is buying up everything while taking little to no income. It's a tradeoff. You have to decide what's more important: Wealth or income. > Or maybe your small farm is much larger than the small farms I know (~100ac). I think we have a similar definition. I'm at ~120 acres.

piker 4y ago

What you are describing is an unprofitable business. You can make equilibrium money in it but you must supply the labour and get no time off. If you instead substituted yourself out and bought the labour there would be nothing left over.

giantg2 4y ago
In general I believe small-time farmers should provide at least some of rhe labor. Otherwise you end up with gentleman farmers just paying low wages to the actual labor.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- onlyrealcuzzo 4y ago
  How/why is this different from other businesses?
  - giantg2 4y ago
    The main point is that farm labor lacks the wage protections of almost any other business (except tip-driven ones).
QuarterReptile 4y ago
There is almost no chance that people who run small farms are evaluating on the same terms as you. They have found a sustaining lifestyle that lets them spend time outside, work at home, teach their kids to work, eat local, work with their neighbors, have seasonal variation in their lives, transact with their neighbors, have fun toys (seriously, if you've never driven a tractor...), have privacy, and on and on. It's a totally different path than a salaried job, and not because they couldn't how to code for big tech or work for a bank. It's a dedicated version of the FIRE idea that so many people with highly paid jobs aspire to.
- wollsmoth 4y ago
  yeah it's a living. I'm sure there's some free time in the winter but you aren't exactly going to retire early.
  - QuarterReptile 4y ago
    I don't think you took away quite what I meant. The farming becomes a passion project or slow lifestyle or healthy living, or some other idea of all the stuff FIRE types are finally going to do after they reach their number. But instead of starting with a theoretically infinite runway, they launch right into the lives they want to live. The small farmers are willing to take the bet on themselves in exchange for not delaying the dream for 10+ years. Also, I'm really skeptical about the retire part of FIRE. It's less retire and more 'stop being the mythical human money optimizer machine of economics, which I show an uncommon knack for approximating.'
- cwkoss 4y ago
  As society continues approaching cyberpunk dystopia, I wouldn't be surprised if office workers would start paying to stay and work on farms to reconnect with land/nature. Pick-yourself farms are big here - feels like the first step in that direction.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    > I wouldn't be surprised if office workers would start paying to stay and work on farms to reconnect with land/nature. This started long ago. Look it up. There's also WWOOF.
wollsmoth 4y ago
Sounds like it's a living, but in the work months it's a lot of manual work. You're not exactly getting rich quick. People will pay up for excellent produce/meat.

giantg2 4y ago

Most small farms require at least one spouse working an off-farm job for the benefits. It's pretty disgusting how little small-time farmers make (and general farm labor). There's a huge fight for $15/hr minimum wage, but this doesn't include farm labor. The people growing everyone's food can't even afford benefits without taking on a second full time job.

randomdata 4y ago
> It's pretty disgusting how little small-time farmers make As a small farmer, I think it's amazing how much I can make. For approximately a month's worth of work, I make more than my wife does working all year long. And I have 11 other months free to work in the tech industry.
- giantg2 4y ago
  What do you do? It seems incredible that you can farm for only one month of the year with no related work the rest of it.
  - randomdata 4y ago
    Grain farmer. It is not one consecutive month, for what it is worth. The work is spread out over the year, but the total time spent each year is equivalent to about a month of work.
    - giantg2 4y ago
      Is this an unusual year? It seems the small grain farmers I know make just ok money in the past. Certainly not enough to pay for benefits and stuff. Or maybe your small farm is much larger than the small farms I know (~100ac).
      - randomdata 4y ago
        This year is indeed unusual. If Mother Nature plays nice the farm might pay more than my tech job, but don't count your grain before its in the bin. A lot can go wrong quickly. Ultimately, profitability is entirely dependent on your debt load. You need to be a huge farmer if most of your profits are going to pay the bank, which is how a lot of farmers want to do it. I've been able to leverage my tech job income to keep my debts to a minimum, so I can make a lot more per acre. The downside is that, by not taking on many acres, my wealth will be much less in the end than another farmer in my cohort who is buying up everything while taking little to no income. It's a tradeoff. You have to decide what's more important: Wealth or income. > Or maybe your small farm is much larger than the small farms I know (~100ac). I think we have a similar definition. I'm at ~120 acres.