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How many people need to live in a house with more than 1,200 square feet? How many people need to set the A/C below 80F or the heat above 60F? How many people

by avalys 4y ago

How many people need to live in a house with more than 1,200 square feet? How many people need to set the A/C below 80F or the heat above 60F? How many people need to fly to Hawaii for a vacation? Drive to the beach. How many people need to drive to the beach? Stay at home and knit. How many people need to have kids? Each kid has a huge carbon footprint. How many people need to drive to the mountains to go skiing? Most things that make life easier, more pleasant, or more fun, are not needs.

suture 4y ago
Correct. And this is why, at the population levels of the world, the future is bleak in terms of the environment. Our way of life at the current population levels is not sustainable.
namdnay 4y ago
I kind of agree with all those points? We have to change our behaviour fast, because those with real needs (the poor family trying to eke out a subsistence living in rural india) are going to feel the full brunt of the Co2 we and our neighbours have been spewing out our whole lives. And instead we're congratulating ourselves on building electric status symbols
- actusual 4y ago
  > And instead we're congratulating ourselves on building electric status symbols Isn't this how you drive change? You have to give people the desire to change before they can actually change...unless you think authoritarianism is a solution (not saying you do, but I'm not sure what other options there are other than 1) give people the opportunity and desire to change, or 2) force them to change). The speed at which we are changing aside...we ARE changing as a society, and that should be celebrated.
- avalys 4y ago
  Is it our obligation to ensure adequate quality of life for every human on the entire planet? Why stop at improving their lives by reducing our CO2 emissions? Why not institute a 10% income tax on all Americans and send that money and resources to subsistence farmers in rural India? That would surely improve their lives and help their "real needs" even more. How much of your income do you donate to subsistence farmers in rural India? For many people, the answer is "none". Why is there an expectation that we are obligated to improve the lives of subsistence farmers in rural India by reducing our carbon footprint, but not an expectation that we should donate money?
  - namdnay 4y ago
    There’s a clear ethical distinction between not actively helping someone and actively harming them. I don’t have to lend my neighbor my lawnmower, but I definitely shouldn’t shit on his grass
cjrp 4y ago
I don't think it's a fair comparison with most of those things; a smaller house is actually smaller, a warmer/colder house is actually a different temperature. A lighter vehicle doesn't have to make any material difference to the driver.
actusual 4y ago
I'd actually go one step further and say that these ARE needs, if the goal is to live a fulfilling life that is worth bringing children into...and what are we if not tools for propagating the human race?
naravara 4y ago
A 3-ton truck, for the vast majority of its buyers, makes their lives harder and less pleasant but they do it anyway because of desires manufactured by marketing and vanity.
DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago
To take it further, you're mostly listing luxury items. No one needs an iPhone, internet or TV either.

by avalys 4y ago

suture 4y ago

Correct. And this is why, at the population levels of the world, the future is bleak in terms of the environment. Our way of life at the current population levels is not sustainable.

namdnay 4y ago

I kind of agree with all those points? We have to change our behaviour fast, because those with real needs (the poor family trying to eke out a subsistence living in rural india) are going to feel the full brunt of the Co2 we and our neighbours have been spewing out our whole lives. And instead we're congratulating ourselves on building electric status symbols

actusual 4y ago
> And instead we're congratulating ourselves on building electric status symbols Isn't this how you drive change? You have to give people the desire to change before they can actually change...unless you think authoritarianism is a solution (not saying you do, but I'm not sure what other options there are other than 1) give people the opportunity and desire to change, or 2) force them to change). The speed at which we are changing aside...we ARE changing as a society, and that should be celebrated.
avalys 4y ago
Is it our obligation to ensure adequate quality of life for every human on the entire planet? Why stop at improving their lives by reducing our CO2 emissions? Why not institute a 10% income tax on all Americans and send that money and resources to subsistence farmers in rural India? That would surely improve their lives and help their "real needs" even more. How much of your income do you donate to subsistence farmers in rural India? For many people, the answer is "none". Why is there an expectation that we are obligated to improve the lives of subsistence farmers in rural India by reducing our carbon footprint, but not an expectation that we should donate money?
- namdnay 4y ago
  There’s a clear ethical distinction between not actively helping someone and actively harming them. I don’t have to lend my neighbor my lawnmower, but I definitely shouldn’t shit on his grass

cjrp 4y ago

I don't think it's a fair comparison with most of those things; a smaller house is actually smaller, a warmer/colder house is actually a different temperature. A lighter vehicle doesn't have to make any material difference to the driver.

actusual 4y ago

I'd actually go one step further and say that these ARE needs, if the goal is to live a fulfilling life that is worth bringing children into...and what are we if not tools for propagating the human race?

naravara 4y ago

A 3-ton truck, for the vast majority of its buyers, makes their lives harder and less pleasant but they do it anyway because of desires manufactured by marketing and vanity.

DwnVoteHoneyPot 4y ago

To take it further, you're mostly listing luxury items. No one needs an iPhone, internet or TV either.