6 ms·

Oh nice, it's a generator module that turns your EV into a hybrid for long-haul trips. I've been talking about this kind of thing for years. Glad it's finally a

by pitaj 4y ago

Oh nice, it's a generator module that turns your EV into a hybrid for long-haul trips. I've been talking about this kind of thing for years. Glad it's finally an option. ~~While this appears to be just extra battery, which is fine, I'd really love to see a generator module that turns your EV into a hybrid for long-haul trips.~~

mikedelago 4y ago
From the link in the original comment: > The Drive first spotted the patent, submitted in April 2018 and published on September 15, 2020. Its illustrations show a removable range extender that sits in the bed of a truck and looks like a toolbox. Inside the device would be a small motor, fuel tank, exhaust system, and electronics needed to hook it up to an electric truck.
- pitaj 4y ago
  Ah, thanks for clarifying. I wasn't paying enough attention.
bluGill 4y ago
More importantly, the generator could be rented. 99% of my trips are well within the range of a EV. However for that final 1% renting a generator would be useful to get the rest of the way. Many of those trips are to do other things where a generator would be handy, camping trips for example. An EV+generator is very useful for those who need a generator: generators are most efficient at 80% of their maximum load, in some cases they will burn more fuel at 50% load than 80%! Thus a generator could charge the EV as needed and turn off.
- pitaj 4y ago
  Yes that would be incredible, especially if there were a standard for interoperability. Imagine just dropping a generator into the frunk, plugging it in, and you're good to go for 500mi instead of 300mi.
dan_quixote 4y ago
A.k.a series hybrid. Chevy attempted this with the Volt - it made perfect sense to me but never really caught on.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  I don't understand why series hybrids didn't catch on. They were a complete no-brainer to me (not a car engineer though). With a regular hybrid you need to have complex clutch arrangements to transfer power from two engines to the wheels simultaneously. In a series hybrid you'd have a fully electric drivetrain and a fuel powered generator, that could always run at optimal efficiency.
  - WorldMaker 4y ago
    The series hybrid is still more complexity over a fully battery electric. More weight especially. The density/size/weight trade-off of carrying around a gas generator at all times versus how much additional battery you can add for that same weight and better size (because increased density) kind of generally makes gas generators less desirable than just adding more batteries to a simpler battery electric. I have a ten year old Chevy Volt that I still love and it was a great transitionary option when I bought it ten years ago. I still think it was the right choice for me at the time. At this point, I feel like the age of the series hybrid is already "over", not just because the Volt was discontinued, but because full battery electrics have only gone on to prove their simplicity, what they can do with larger batteries, and everything about the improvements in 10 years of EV development. I wish other people had as an easy of a transition as I had, but I also think that it's better for everyone to just dive in with a full EV rather than a (good for the time, but bad today) compromise like a series hybrid.
  - Gibbon1 4y ago
    The parallel hybrids are really genius. At the heart of the Prius design is a simple planetary gear and two eletric motors that forms a power split device. What makes it different from a normal planetary gear train is you have a motor generator MG1 on the engine and MG2 one the ring gear. The deal is you have a mechanical power path via the planetary gears. And you have a parallel electric power path between MG1 and MG2 (and the battery). In the end it's a just a CVT. It's conceptually more complicated, but probably not in practice.
progman32 4y ago
My 2014 BMW i3 does this, at least with the European software on it. It's got a 2-cylinder motorcycle engine in the back that I can kick on at will (the US model, for silly reasons, doesn't give you this control unless you modify the system configuration over a diagnostic port). Works well. I've taken many long trips in it this way. Edit, for clarity: I have a US model with modded software. Without the mods, the ICE will kick on at ~10% battery. The mods let me start up the ICE whenever I want. But either way, it's more a backup generator than, say, a Prius setup.
- KennyBlanken 4y ago
  The range extender option was reportedly extremely unpopular among buyers. The i3 was also hideously unreliable, with lease turn-ins being practically given away at wholesale auctions. A substantial amount of pollution and efficiency loss is during warm-up, so activating the range extender when the battery is nearly depleted to maximize the extender's run time and thus maximize energy to pollution (and fuel consumption) ratio, is prudent...
ketralnis 4y ago
The BMW i3 and i8 worked this way, as well as the Chevy Volt
- pitaj 4y ago
  Right but those were built in, not a module that could be installed only when needed.
oh_sigh 4y ago
Seems more efficient to just have all cars be hybrids, with a small battery that can cover the bulk of daily driving, and then use the generator for longer trips. I'd imagine 90+% of cars are driven < 40 miles per day on most days. Less efficient to lug around a generator all the time? Sure. But right now I'm carrying around 300 mile-range worth of batteries on most of my trips that are 5-10 miles/day. And, users don't need to think or worry about it, engineers don't need to design it, you don't need a winch to install it into your car, etc... e.g. Toyota RAV4-Prime
- pitaj 4y ago
  The issue with that is that you have a lot of extra weight, parts, and complexity which you're barely ever using. Having a module allows you to only install it when you need it. You could even rent it only when needed, as another person suggested.

by pitaj 4y ago

mikedelago 4y ago

From the link in the original comment: > The Drive first spotted the patent, submitted in April 2018 and published on September 15, 2020. Its illustrations show a removable range extender that sits in the bed of a truck and looks like a toolbox. Inside the device would be a small motor, fuel tank, exhaust system, and electronics needed to hook it up to an electric truck.

pitaj 4y ago
Ah, thanks for clarifying. I wasn't paying enough attention.

bluGill 4y ago

More importantly, the generator could be rented. 99% of my trips are well within the range of a EV. However for that final 1% renting a generator would be useful to get the rest of the way. Many of those trips are to do other things where a generator would be handy, camping trips for example. An EV+generator is very useful for those who need a generator: generators are most efficient at 80% of their maximum load, in some cases they will burn more fuel at 50% load than 80%! Thus a generator could charge the EV as needed and turn off.

pitaj 4y ago
Yes that would be incredible, especially if there were a standard for interoperability. Imagine just dropping a generator into the frunk, plugging it in, and you're good to go for 500mi instead of 300mi.

dan_quixote 4y ago

A.k.a series hybrid. Chevy attempted this with the Volt - it made perfect sense to me but never really caught on.

theshrike79 4y ago
I don't understand why series hybrids didn't catch on. They were a complete no-brainer to me (not a car engineer though). With a regular hybrid you need to have complex clutch arrangements to transfer power from two engines to the wheels simultaneously. In a series hybrid you'd have a fully electric drivetrain and a fuel powered generator, that could always run at optimal efficiency.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  The series hybrid is still more complexity over a fully battery electric. More weight especially. The density/size/weight trade-off of carrying around a gas generator at all times versus how much additional battery you can add for that same weight and better size (because increased density) kind of generally makes gas generators less desirable than just adding more batteries to a simpler battery electric. I have a ten year old Chevy Volt that I still love and it was a great transitionary option when I bought it ten years ago. I still think it was the right choice for me at the time. At this point, I feel like the age of the series hybrid is already "over", not just because the Volt was discontinued, but because full battery electrics have only gone on to prove their simplicity, what they can do with larger batteries, and everything about the improvements in 10 years of EV development. I wish other people had as an easy of a transition as I had, but I also think that it's better for everyone to just dive in with a full EV rather than a (good for the time, but bad today) compromise like a series hybrid.
- Gibbon1 4y ago
  The parallel hybrids are really genius. At the heart of the Prius design is a simple planetary gear and two eletric motors that forms a power split device. What makes it different from a normal planetary gear train is you have a motor generator MG1 on the engine and MG2 one the ring gear. The deal is you have a mechanical power path via the planetary gears. And you have a parallel electric power path between MG1 and MG2 (and the battery). In the end it's a just a CVT. It's conceptually more complicated, but probably not in practice.

progman32 4y ago

My 2014 BMW i3 does this, at least with the European software on it. It's got a 2-cylinder motorcycle engine in the back that I can kick on at will (the US model, for silly reasons, doesn't give you this control unless you modify the system configuration over a diagnostic port). Works well. I've taken many long trips in it this way. Edit, for clarity: I have a US model with modded software. Without the mods, the ICE will kick on at ~10% battery. The mods let me start up the ICE whenever I want. But either way, it's more a backup generator than, say, a Prius setup.

KennyBlanken 4y ago
The range extender option was reportedly extremely unpopular among buyers. The i3 was also hideously unreliable, with lease turn-ins being practically given away at wholesale auctions. A substantial amount of pollution and efficiency loss is during warm-up, so activating the range extender when the battery is nearly depleted to maximize the extender's run time and thus maximize energy to pollution (and fuel consumption) ratio, is prudent...

ketralnis 4y ago

The BMW i3 and i8 worked this way, as well as the Chevy Volt

pitaj 4y ago
Right but those were built in, not a module that could be installed only when needed.

oh_sigh 4y ago

Seems more efficient to just have all cars be hybrids, with a small battery that can cover the bulk of daily driving, and then use the generator for longer trips. I'd imagine 90+% of cars are driven < 40 miles per day on most days. Less efficient to lug around a generator all the time? Sure. But right now I'm carrying around 300 mile-range worth of batteries on most of my trips that are 5-10 miles/day. And, users don't need to think or worry about it, engineers don't need to design it, you don't need a winch to install it into your car, etc... e.g. Toyota RAV4-Prime

pitaj 4y ago
The issue with that is that you have a lot of extra weight, parts, and complexity which you're barely ever using. Having a module allows you to only install it when you need it. You could even rent it only when needed, as another person suggested.