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Surprised at the negativity. This is great IMO! I just bought a house and am surprised by how crappy all the options for backup power generation are. Cheapo ge

Surprised at the negativity. This is great IMO! I just bought a house and am surprised by how crappy all the options for backup power generation are. Cheapo generator: allows you to plug in some stuff but it’s very ad hoc, needs some light maintenance. Definitely good in a pinch but it’s not gonna power your house or even make it easy to keep your lights on. Expensive generator, wired into house electrical system: great stuff but very expensive, and still requires maintenance. Powerwall: low maintenance, terrific user experience, however exorbitantly expensive and also won’t really help in a prolonged outage.

maxerickson 4y ago
I am curious to hear of hands on experience with http://www.generlink.com/ http://www.generlink.com/ . It is a medium power transfer switch that installs behind the electric meter, meaning that the existing panel can be used to select loads. With a lower quality generator, you probably get ~3kW for less than $5000.
- wrycoder 4y ago
  7.5KW Generac $2000 plus installation https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200665207_200665207 https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200665207_20...
- rsync 4y ago
  I really dislike the complexity of the automatic transfer solutions and I especially dislike the concept of preferred breakers or sub panels for generator use, etc. Instead, just buy the $30 metal lockout tab for your panel and wire your generator right into the main panel and be done with it. So. Much. Simpler. Power goes out, you flip the lockout over and manually start the generator. Worried about loads ? Fine - while the panel is open, flip off your dryer 30a and … ? In reality, load is not an issue - a generator with 100amp breaker will power your entire house. (I even tried to break it - ran dryer, 20amp microwave, toaster and kicked on a water pump … no issue)
  - gautamcgoel 4y ago
    Can you explain why automatic transfer solutions must be more complicated? Is it because they must constantly monitor the power situation to know when to kick in?
- xnyan 4y ago
  I've installed this, the price approaches/exceeds the cost of entry level automatic transfer systems but with the functionality of a manual system. I think most would get more value out of something cheaper or more expensive. Also, because it sits above your breaker, you're introducing a new point of failure to your home's electrical supply. If a transfer switch fails, you don't have generator power. If this fails, you have no power whatsoever until it can be removed or replaced. Cheaper: Interlock switch. Most local codes allow a UL recognized interlock system to be used on the panel that physically prevents the main panel breaker from closing while the generator breaker is open, and vice versa. You have to install a special outlet to the generator breaker, but as long as it's close to the panel, this does not cost a lot. Functionally this is the same as the product you linked, but for ~$150 plus installation vs ~$850 plus installation. More expensive: automated transfer panel. If you need to use the generator frequently, this is what you want. Even if you use it infrequently, automatic transfer is so much more pleasant than having to go to the panel, flip the right breakers, turn on the generator, then do it all over again when the power comes back on. You can get a basic one for about the same price as the generlink device you linked. 200-amp whole house switches can be installed for $2000 or less If it was me, I would not even bother with a manual system. For infrequent use, you can get a window insert that lets you feed extension cables through a window without letting in bugs or cold air. If you're using it more than once or twice a year, $1000-2000 for an automatic transfer switch is not that bad compared to the cost of a generator and will make the experience of using it much better. The only situation I can think of where a device such as this would have an advantage would be one where you cannot permanently modify anything. It is in fact very quick and easy to install, and can be removed without leaving any permanent changes.
  - maxerickson 4y ago
    My main use case is powering the blower and pumps on my furnace, so cords won't really work. When you say you've installed it, you mean for someone else? I kind of had the sense that it was expensive relative to the utility it provides, but it is nice and tidy.
    - achenatx 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
whartung 4y ago
I have a Powerwall. It's price was competitive with a natural gas generator. I was surprised as well (I didn't expect the generator to be that expensive), but when they came within ballpark, the Powerwall was a no brainer. It does (supposed to have) sustainability assuming it's backed by solar and you have enough sun (as with all solar caveats). The best thing about the Powerwall is that it's not a standby system. It's active everyday. For my house, solar by day, battery by night, recycle, recharge, repeat. This means that when the rare event comes, I don't have to worry (as much) about it not working because I didn't run the thing for 6 months. It can fail anytime, but at least I can, ideally, deal with it while the grid is up, rather than have it fail when it's actually necessary. Also the power switchover is seamless. The Powerwall experience is, indeed, very good.
- jacquesm 4y ago
  How long do you have it and are you monitoring capacity degradation of the cells?
  - whartung 4y ago
    Not long enough to see an impact (only had it a few months, the project took almost 2 years with all of the COVID relate shenanigans). Utilizing the Tesla apps, I honestly am not sure how I would monitor degradation over time. Perhaps were I to download the data, I might glean some insight from that. It's currently not something they highlight.
    - jacquesm 4y ago
      Ok! Slightly jealous with your setup, that sounds like a nice bit of kit you have there.
- philwelch 4y ago
  With a natural gas generator though, you don't run out of power once the batteries have depleted as long as you still have gas service.
bdcravens 4y ago
Reading elsewhere in the discussion, using the truck in this manner requires equipment that starts to get closer to the price of a Generac.
xhkkffbf 4y ago
My parents have a Generac. It tests itself every Tuesday at noon. It always seemed fine. But the first time they needed it, something failed. I'm not sure what, but I think it was in the electronics and software. Even the best tests can't catch everything.
- dijonman2 4y ago
  Probably a no load test. I put mine online and do a transfer test weekly.
bob1029 4y ago
I've got a somewhat goldilocks generator setup that involves a backfeed breaker (with mandatory interlock kit). I can run my central AC on this thing for ~5 hours per 10 gallons of fuel. The generator is "portable" and rated for 12000 continuous watts. Its a bit of a pain to set up, but this is how I deal with multi-day hurricane scenarios living in the gulf coast region. I debated standby generator, but the cost vs value is a difficult argument considering how often the texas grid actually experiences a multi-day event. I am still considering something like a powerwall, but its a lot of extra crap to pay for and think about. My generator is properly winterized and will almost certainly start up if required to within the next half decade. Very simple.
- adamfeldman 4y ago
  How many tons is your AC? I’m also on the gulf coast and struggling to size a generator for my 5-ton compressor.
  - bob1029 4y ago
    4 tons. 5 tons would definitely be pushing it on LRA/running amps for this size generator. But, this ultimately depends on the age & vendor of the compressor. Newer multi-stage or inverter compressor designs are much more likely to play well.
    - dijonman2 4y ago
      The opposite is often true with inverter driven compressors. It’s VFD powered which introduces harmonics and other noise from SWPS. In the data center industry you oversize your generators to deal with it. Plus dirty power from a struggling generator will kill the VFD. I just ran into this with my ECM condenser fan motor, circuit killed by generator.
      - bob1029 4y ago
        > The opposite is often true with inverter driven compressors. This is good to know. I had simply made an assumption - The inrush current is what I was primarily concerned with. I did not realize the other factors would cause trouble once it was ramped up to full speed. I can definitely see how dirty power from a cheap genset (like the one I have) could screw over a digital drive system.
mfer 4y ago
I have a generator that can power everything in my house except my air conditioning. It plugs into the side of my house. The total cost in todays dollars is less than $1k usd. I’ve used this generator to power me through outages that have lasted days. It’s been relatively low maintenance and the maintenance that exists is taught in YouTube videos.
asdfasdf111 4y ago
generators and power walls make sense only for hospitals and stupid-rich people (edit: and remote setups) You probably have a couple things you need to keep running during a power outage. A decent consumer nobreak will be more economical and efficient. This is marketing. This car is being marketed to the same doomsday people who buy guns because the coming collapse of civilization. Pure fear based marketing.
- theshrike79 4y ago
  It's not all doomsday prepper marketing. Adding Vehicle to Load (V2L) or Vehicle to Grid (V2G) is not a huge increase in BoM. The F-150 already has multiple AC outlets in it, in a pinch you could just carry your fridge next to it and plug it in :) This is just Ford doing a proprietary charger that can automate switching from grid to V2G mode if the grid goes down.
ActorNightly 4y ago
Realistically, you have to look at it from a "convenience/dollar", since power outages are generally rare. With the general infrequency of power outages in most places, getting portable quiet generators like Honda EU ones and running an extension cord inside your house is pretty much the most cost effective solution. You can chain 2 EU3000is together for 6000 watts, and only spend $6k, and run them out of your back yard without disturbing the neighbors. The other issue that you have to consider with Lightning is that while its good for occasional outages, for every watt you use, you slowly lose the ability to drive away if shit goes south, with no easy way of effectively getting that charge back. If anything, the current Hybrid F150 is the better choice for powering your house.
- iramiller 4y ago
  Just remember then when all of your neighbors have power out as well that those small generators often “grow legs and disappear” … it is a very good idea to chain them up. Also _always_ ensure the exhaust is no where near any open doors or windows. Small portable generators are exceptionally dangerous for carbon monoxide poisoning. All that said these small generators are fantastic and they can even easily be setup to run from an external fuel tank to increase flexibility.
  - ActorNightly 4y ago
    I run mine out of my garage with the garage door cracked and a fan pointed to push the exhaust out the crack. Have monoxide detectors in the house for safety.
turtlebits 4y ago
This is great, but don't discount the fact that you can have some battery backup for under $5k USD (~15kwh). Granted, you won't have ~100 kWh of storage, but in most places (in the US), the grid isn't so unstable that you'll regularly use it. And of course it won't power your home at normal consumption days (or even 1 day), but it works for emergencies.

maxerickson 4y ago

I am curious to hear of hands on experience with http://www.generlink.com/ http://www.generlink.com/ . It is a medium power transfer switch that installs behind the electric meter, meaning that the existing panel can be used to select loads. With a lower quality generator, you probably get ~3kW for less than $5000.

wrycoder 4y ago
7.5KW Generac $2000 plus installation https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200665207_200665207 https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200665207_20...
rsync 4y ago
I really dislike the complexity of the automatic transfer solutions and I especially dislike the concept of preferred breakers or sub panels for generator use, etc. Instead, just buy the $30 metal lockout tab for your panel and wire your generator right into the main panel and be done with it. So. Much. Simpler. Power goes out, you flip the lockout over and manually start the generator. Worried about loads ? Fine - while the panel is open, flip off your dryer 30a and … ? In reality, load is not an issue - a generator with 100amp breaker will power your entire house. (I even tried to break it - ran dryer, 20amp microwave, toaster and kicked on a water pump … no issue)
- gautamcgoel 4y ago
  Can you explain why automatic transfer solutions must be more complicated? Is it because they must constantly monitor the power situation to know when to kick in?
xnyan 4y ago
I've installed this, the price approaches/exceeds the cost of entry level automatic transfer systems but with the functionality of a manual system. I think most would get more value out of something cheaper or more expensive. Also, because it sits above your breaker, you're introducing a new point of failure to your home's electrical supply. If a transfer switch fails, you don't have generator power. If this fails, you have no power whatsoever until it can be removed or replaced. Cheaper: Interlock switch. Most local codes allow a UL recognized interlock system to be used on the panel that physically prevents the main panel breaker from closing while the generator breaker is open, and vice versa. You have to install a special outlet to the generator breaker, but as long as it's close to the panel, this does not cost a lot. Functionally this is the same as the product you linked, but for ~$150 plus installation vs ~$850 plus installation. More expensive: automated transfer panel. If you need to use the generator frequently, this is what you want. Even if you use it infrequently, automatic transfer is so much more pleasant than having to go to the panel, flip the right breakers, turn on the generator, then do it all over again when the power comes back on. You can get a basic one for about the same price as the generlink device you linked. 200-amp whole house switches can be installed for $2000 or less If it was me, I would not even bother with a manual system. For infrequent use, you can get a window insert that lets you feed extension cables through a window without letting in bugs or cold air. If you're using it more than once or twice a year, $1000-2000 for an automatic transfer switch is not that bad compared to the cost of a generator and will make the experience of using it much better. The only situation I can think of where a device such as this would have an advantage would be one where you cannot permanently modify anything. It is in fact very quick and easy to install, and can be removed without leaving any permanent changes.
- maxerickson 4y ago
  My main use case is powering the blower and pumps on my furnace, so cords won't really work. When you say you've installed it, you mean for someone else? I kind of had the sense that it was expensive relative to the utility it provides, but it is nice and tidy.
  - achenatx 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

whartung 4y ago

I have a Powerwall. It's price was competitive with a natural gas generator. I was surprised as well (I didn't expect the generator to be that expensive), but when they came within ballpark, the Powerwall was a no brainer. It does (supposed to have) sustainability assuming it's backed by solar and you have enough sun (as with all solar caveats). The best thing about the Powerwall is that it's not a standby system. It's active everyday. For my house, solar by day, battery by night, recycle, recharge, repeat. This means that when the rare event comes, I don't have to worry (as much) about it not working because I didn't run the thing for 6 months. It can fail anytime, but at least I can, ideally, deal with it while the grid is up, rather than have it fail when it's actually necessary. Also the power switchover is seamless. The Powerwall experience is, indeed, very good.

jacquesm 4y ago
How long do you have it and are you monitoring capacity degradation of the cells?
- whartung 4y ago
  Not long enough to see an impact (only had it a few months, the project took almost 2 years with all of the COVID relate shenanigans). Utilizing the Tesla apps, I honestly am not sure how I would monitor degradation over time. Perhaps were I to download the data, I might glean some insight from that. It's currently not something they highlight.
  - jacquesm 4y ago
    Ok! Slightly jealous with your setup, that sounds like a nice bit of kit you have there.
philwelch 4y ago
With a natural gas generator though, you don't run out of power once the batteries have depleted as long as you still have gas service.

bdcravens 4y ago

Reading elsewhere in the discussion, using the truck in this manner requires equipment that starts to get closer to the price of a Generac.

xhkkffbf 4y ago

My parents have a Generac. It tests itself every Tuesday at noon. It always seemed fine. But the first time they needed it, something failed. I'm not sure what, but I think it was in the electronics and software. Even the best tests can't catch everything.

dijonman2 4y ago
Probably a no load test. I put mine online and do a transfer test weekly.

bob1029 4y ago

I've got a somewhat goldilocks generator setup that involves a backfeed breaker (with mandatory interlock kit). I can run my central AC on this thing for ~5 hours per 10 gallons of fuel. The generator is "portable" and rated for 12000 continuous watts. Its a bit of a pain to set up, but this is how I deal with multi-day hurricane scenarios living in the gulf coast region. I debated standby generator, but the cost vs value is a difficult argument considering how often the texas grid actually experiences a multi-day event. I am still considering something like a powerwall, but its a lot of extra crap to pay for and think about. My generator is properly winterized and will almost certainly start up if required to within the next half decade. Very simple.

adamfeldman 4y ago
How many tons is your AC? I’m also on the gulf coast and struggling to size a generator for my 5-ton compressor.
- bob1029 4y ago
  4 tons. 5 tons would definitely be pushing it on LRA/running amps for this size generator. But, this ultimately depends on the age & vendor of the compressor. Newer multi-stage or inverter compressor designs are much more likely to play well.
  - dijonman2 4y ago
    The opposite is often true with inverter driven compressors. It’s VFD powered which introduces harmonics and other noise from SWPS. In the data center industry you oversize your generators to deal with it. Plus dirty power from a struggling generator will kill the VFD. I just ran into this with my ECM condenser fan motor, circuit killed by generator.
    - bob1029 4y ago
      > The opposite is often true with inverter driven compressors. This is good to know. I had simply made an assumption - The inrush current is what I was primarily concerned with. I did not realize the other factors would cause trouble once it was ramped up to full speed. I can definitely see how dirty power from a cheap genset (like the one I have) could screw over a digital drive system.

mfer 4y ago

I have a generator that can power everything in my house except my air conditioning. It plugs into the side of my house. The total cost in todays dollars is less than $1k usd. I’ve used this generator to power me through outages that have lasted days. It’s been relatively low maintenance and the maintenance that exists is taught in YouTube videos.

asdfasdf111 4y ago

generators and power walls make sense only for hospitals and stupid-rich people (edit: and remote setups) You probably have a couple things you need to keep running during a power outage. A decent consumer nobreak will be more economical and efficient. This is marketing. This car is being marketed to the same doomsday people who buy guns because the coming collapse of civilization. Pure fear based marketing.

theshrike79 4y ago
It's not all doomsday prepper marketing. Adding Vehicle to Load (V2L) or Vehicle to Grid (V2G) is not a huge increase in BoM. The F-150 already has multiple AC outlets in it, in a pinch you could just carry your fridge next to it and plug it in :) This is just Ford doing a proprietary charger that can automate switching from grid to V2G mode if the grid goes down.

ActorNightly 4y ago

Realistically, you have to look at it from a "convenience/dollar", since power outages are generally rare. With the general infrequency of power outages in most places, getting portable quiet generators like Honda EU ones and running an extension cord inside your house is pretty much the most cost effective solution. You can chain 2 EU3000is together for 6000 watts, and only spend $6k, and run them out of your back yard without disturbing the neighbors. The other issue that you have to consider with Lightning is that while its good for occasional outages, for every watt you use, you slowly lose the ability to drive away if shit goes south, with no easy way of effectively getting that charge back. If anything, the current Hybrid F150 is the better choice for powering your house.

iramiller 4y ago
Just remember then when all of your neighbors have power out as well that those small generators often “grow legs and disappear” … it is a very good idea to chain them up. Also _always_ ensure the exhaust is no where near any open doors or windows. Small portable generators are exceptionally dangerous for carbon monoxide poisoning. All that said these small generators are fantastic and they can even easily be setup to run from an external fuel tank to increase flexibility.
- ActorNightly 4y ago
  I run mine out of my garage with the garage door cracked and a fan pointed to push the exhaust out the crack. Have monoxide detectors in the house for safety.

turtlebits 4y ago

This is great, but don't discount the fact that you can have some battery backup for under $5k USD (~15kwh). Granted, you won't have ~100 kWh of storage, but in most places (in the US), the grid isn't so unstable that you'll regularly use it. And of course it won't power your home at normal consumption days (or even 1 day), but it works for emergencies.