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The energy it takes to fill up the tank in this vehicle once could power a house for a week. Wow. Every household driving an F150 would appear to the grid like

The energy it takes to fill up the tank in this vehicle once could power a house for a week. Wow. Every household driving an F150 would appear to the grid like bring 7x houses online. It certainly puts the efficiency of writing a bike for short trips in perspective.

ale42 4y ago
Writing or riding? :)
Mvandenbergh 4y ago
The grid is sized on peak rather than average loads and at every voltage level spends many hours a day comfortably below a third of its capacity almost everywhere. In places with non-electric heating it can easily be at single digit % load factor on a cold night. DC fast chargers are challenging for local grids but home / office based AC chargers with smart charging don't really contribute to grid loading because they only draw substantial power during non-congested periods.
- WorldMaker 4y ago
  Yes, it is useful to remember that peak load on the Grid is often dominated by/built for industrial users that generally keep somewhat strict 9-5 business days and evenings/weekends rarely see anything close to that same peak. It's why power utilities have almost always had different rates for Peak and Non-Peak electric usage (to incentivize more non-peak usage). Most EVs even have smart modes that let them schedule their charges to best take advantage of cheaper off-peak electricity pricing.
csours 4y ago
I'm curious how this looks in another context. According to the EIA in 2018 the average Texas home used 14,112 kWh a year. The EPA/Monroney window sticker for the Ford Lightning claims 49 kWh / 100 miles, so about 1 kWh for 2 miles. So you could drive approximately 28,000 miles on the same power that a home consumes. Does my math make sense? Did I miss something?
lgbr 4y ago
> Every household driving an F150 would appear to the grid like bring 7x houses online That assumes every household fully recharges that F-150 each day, meaning they drive at least 300 miles per day. Instead, I think it's generally assumed that a household might drive that much in a week instead, which appears to the grid like bringing 2x houses online. Hence the estimates that electric vehicles are going to double the amount of electricity that we need to generate.
SamBam 4y ago
No it wouldn't. Bringing 7x houses online is 7x the power usage, day in and day out. Bringing one battery in that's the size of 7 houses is a one-time fill up, plus the energy expenditure of however much you drive the car, which is independent of the size of the battery. It's like saying buying a bigger water tank means doubling your water usage.
- parkingrift 4y ago
  Average American drives 14,000 - 17,000 miles per year. The top end F-150 Lightning has a range of 300 miles but I think we all know in practice this will be closer to 200-250. This is all hand wavy math, but If I'm generous on both ends that's about 56 full charge cycles per year. Based on OP math that would be the equivalent to 392 days of electricity for a typical US house. If I am less generous that's 85 full charge cycles or the rough equivalent of 595 days of electricity. Each F-150 Lightning is the rough equivalent of adding 1.1 - 1.63 houses worth of electricity to the grid. I can't speak to whether this is a potential problem or not, but I would guess that there would be serious problems if every house in a neighborhood suddenly went out and bought an F-150 Lightning.
  - yurishimo 4y ago
    Luckily, Ford won't be able to make enough of them for that to be a problem in even the next 5 years. By that time, the grid will have slowly expanded and caught up just like it is now. California has had issues with their grid but that's not because of people buying EVs as much as it is incompetence in regards to grid maintenance generally. States like Massachusetts also have higher EV adoption and there are no signs of the grid becoming overburdened. Heck, Texas cities have a TON of EVs also and electricity is still 10¢/kWh from Oncor. The grid will be fine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU
    - thehappypm 4y ago
      It’s interesting because for a long time electricity needs declined over time. Think things like light bulbs: just getting more efficient. Energy efficient everything has been a major trend. Now suddenly it’s all electric everything! Heat pumps! EVs! Heat pump water heaters!
recursive 4y ago
I'm a big supporter of bikes, but this is a huge exaggeration. This would only be true if every household was completely recharging and discharging the battery capacity every single day.
ketralnis 4y ago
No more than adding a swimming pool makes your house look like 7 houses to the water grid. You fill it up once, not every day. After that it just has its replenishment cost.
raydev 4y ago
Not sure it's 7x houses, but it's big enough to make me wonder how states like Texas are going to keep up over the next 5-10 years, with its absurdly low population density and love affair with trucks. Texas struggles to get electricity to citizens in recent summers. How will it handle the coming electric vehicle wave?
- yurishimo 4y ago
  Rural people in Texas won't be buying electric trucks in 5 years. Maybe 10, but I doubt it. Until the electric equivalent of a fast charging gas station comes online in every small town, I doubt we'll see mass adoption in rural areas. My relatives in rural Texas can easily drive 100+ miles a day just to go to work and the store/errands. If they needed to take a trailer that day, they would likely reach the limit of electric range. My guess, wealthier rural families will probably get the ball rolling by purchasing electric cars for commuting and keeping the big diesel truck for weekend toy hauling/livestock/etc. This will incentivize some infrastructure in rural communities until city adoption reaches peak levels and we start to see infrastructure spread out from cities to support road trips and road warrior business commuting.

ale42 4y ago

Writing or riding? :)

Mvandenbergh 4y ago

The grid is sized on peak rather than average loads and at every voltage level spends many hours a day comfortably below a third of its capacity almost everywhere. In places with non-electric heating it can easily be at single digit % load factor on a cold night. DC fast chargers are challenging for local grids but home / office based AC chargers with smart charging don't really contribute to grid loading because they only draw substantial power during non-congested periods.

WorldMaker 4y ago
Yes, it is useful to remember that peak load on the Grid is often dominated by/built for industrial users that generally keep somewhat strict 9-5 business days and evenings/weekends rarely see anything close to that same peak. It's why power utilities have almost always had different rates for Peak and Non-Peak electric usage (to incentivize more non-peak usage). Most EVs even have smart modes that let them schedule their charges to best take advantage of cheaper off-peak electricity pricing.

csours 4y ago

I'm curious how this looks in another context. According to the EIA in 2018 the average Texas home used 14,112 kWh a year. The EPA/Monroney window sticker for the Ford Lightning claims 49 kWh / 100 miles, so about 1 kWh for 2 miles. So you could drive approximately 28,000 miles on the same power that a home consumes. Does my math make sense? Did I miss something?

lgbr 4y ago

> Every household driving an F150 would appear to the grid like bring 7x houses online That assumes every household fully recharges that F-150 each day, meaning they drive at least 300 miles per day. Instead, I think it's generally assumed that a household might drive that much in a week instead, which appears to the grid like bringing 2x houses online. Hence the estimates that electric vehicles are going to double the amount of electricity that we need to generate.

SamBam 4y ago

No it wouldn't. Bringing 7x houses online is 7x the power usage, day in and day out. Bringing one battery in that's the size of 7 houses is a one-time fill up, plus the energy expenditure of however much you drive the car, which is independent of the size of the battery. It's like saying buying a bigger water tank means doubling your water usage.

parkingrift 4y ago
Average American drives 14,000 - 17,000 miles per year. The top end F-150 Lightning has a range of 300 miles but I think we all know in practice this will be closer to 200-250. This is all hand wavy math, but If I'm generous on both ends that's about 56 full charge cycles per year. Based on OP math that would be the equivalent to 392 days of electricity for a typical US house. If I am less generous that's 85 full charge cycles or the rough equivalent of 595 days of electricity. Each F-150 Lightning is the rough equivalent of adding 1.1 - 1.63 houses worth of electricity to the grid. I can't speak to whether this is a potential problem or not, but I would guess that there would be serious problems if every house in a neighborhood suddenly went out and bought an F-150 Lightning.
- yurishimo 4y ago
  Luckily, Ford won't be able to make enough of them for that to be a problem in even the next 5 years. By that time, the grid will have slowly expanded and caught up just like it is now. California has had issues with their grid but that's not because of people buying EVs as much as it is incompetence in regards to grid maintenance generally. States like Massachusetts also have higher EV adoption and there are no signs of the grid becoming overburdened. Heck, Texas cities have a TON of EVs also and electricity is still 10¢/kWh from Oncor. The grid will be fine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dfyG6FXsUU
  - thehappypm 4y ago
    It’s interesting because for a long time electricity needs declined over time. Think things like light bulbs: just getting more efficient. Energy efficient everything has been a major trend. Now suddenly it’s all electric everything! Heat pumps! EVs! Heat pump water heaters!

recursive 4y ago

I'm a big supporter of bikes, but this is a huge exaggeration. This would only be true if every household was completely recharging and discharging the battery capacity every single day.

ketralnis 4y ago

No more than adding a swimming pool makes your house look like 7 houses to the water grid. You fill it up once, not every day. After that it just has its replenishment cost.

raydev 4y ago

Not sure it's 7x houses, but it's big enough to make me wonder how states like Texas are going to keep up over the next 5-10 years, with its absurdly low population density and love affair with trucks. Texas struggles to get electricity to citizens in recent summers. How will it handle the coming electric vehicle wave?

yurishimo 4y ago
Rural people in Texas won't be buying electric trucks in 5 years. Maybe 10, but I doubt it. Until the electric equivalent of a fast charging gas station comes online in every small town, I doubt we'll see mass adoption in rural areas. My relatives in rural Texas can easily drive 100+ miles a day just to go to work and the store/errands. If they needed to take a trailer that day, they would likely reach the limit of electric range. My guess, wealthier rural families will probably get the ball rolling by purchasing electric cars for commuting and keeping the big diesel truck for weekend toy hauling/livestock/etc. This will incentivize some infrastructure in rural communities until city adoption reaches peak levels and we start to see infrastructure spread out from cities to support road trips and road warrior business commuting.