6 ms·

For anyone else (like me) who doesn't know what this is, it seems like the website is http://4coder.net http://4coder.net

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bitva77 4y ago
I love (not) these posts that assume we know what it is.
- capableweb 4y ago
  I love people who think everything has to be aimed for their consumption. Some things are aimed at a group of people, and written with that in mind. Someone closing a project/stopping maintenance of something, usually write directly to the group of users of the software. To expect everything to contain information about everything someone could not know, means everything would have to be extremely verbose. We have search engines, typing "4coder" and finding the website took me around 2 seconds, I'm sure you'd be able to do it just as fast.
  - paskozdilar 4y ago
    I understand your perspective, but I disagree in this particular case. "Show HN" is obviously aimed at our consumption.
    - radlad 4y ago
      This is not a "Show HN." https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html
      - paskozdilar 4y ago
        Hm. It was either removed, or I haven't seen the title properly. Still, the argument is the same - a person is posting an article on a news site for the sole purpose of other people seeing (consuming) it. I consider it basic decency to create a good presentation when you're showing something in people's news feed.
        Nicksil 4y ago
        >Still, the argument is the same - a person is posting an article on a news site for the sole purpose of other people seeing (consuming) it. >I consider it basic decency to create a good presentation when you're showing something in people's news feed. The individual posting the article may not be the owner of the code base thus making it impossible for the poster to alter the presentation. If the owner of the code base has not posted a link for others' "consumption," they would have conformed to your expectations.
        paskozdilar 4y ago
        > The individual posting the article may not be the owner of the code base Good point, I didn't consider that. The point of view I'm coming from is that while it's impossible to put all possible information in a README (and such level of detail would probably make it even less readable, like Whitehead and Russel's Principia Mathematica) - there are some things that are reasonable to expect on any kind of public repository (I assume it's a public repository because of the README's public-facing style - "Welcome to the 4coder code base. [...] In this readme you will find: [...]"), such as "what is the purpose of this program". I know nobody owes anything to nobody, and such criticism might be seen as rude - since we're basically criticizing volunteers - but consider the fact that feedback is a major part of how we figure out our mistakes. If someone is posting their work online, it would be reasonable to assume that they care about their work and want to make it better. Without (constructive) criticism, they would never receive the feedback required for improving. Praise is pleasant and should be given when it's due, but criticism is also useful information.
    - __ryan__ 4y ago
      Well, anyone can post a link to HN but only the project author can adjust the project’s README. Perhaps a better URL exists, but also perhaps not everything on HN has to be for everyone on HN. This is obviously news for people who know what 4Coder is, not necessarily meant to onboard people who don’t want to look up what 4Coder is. Edit: grammar
  - dspillett 4y ago
    > I love people who think everything has to be aimed for their consumption. I love how people don't bother providing information that would be easy to provide, the URL to the website would be handy as here it isn't even included in the README on github, then people get all het up when others mention the lack of information.
  - masukomi 4y ago
    I love people who think that they have any semblance of an idea of who will see or read their stuff. It's so pre-Gutenberg of them. ;) You don't have to write your things FOR EVERYONE but it isn't unreasonable to suggest that folks are going to link to random projects on github and that other folks may end up on said project through unexpected means, and with no context, or with unexpected context. It probably follows that that _maybe_ spending the time to write _one sentence_ to describe WTF you're looking if you want ANYONE to consume it isn't unreasonable.
jordanmorgan10 4y ago
They will tell stories of you
AdmiralAsshat 4y ago
I wish the stock README.md template for every project started with: "What the hell is ________?"
- zokier 4y ago
  I find it bit of a peculiarity of HN that GH links, no matter how non-descriptive, are so often preferred over projects main home pages.
  - Barrin92 4y ago
    with smaller projects it's pretty common that HN hugs the site to death
  - unsafecast 4y ago
    In this particular case, the github link makes a bit more sense, as the main topic of discussion was the fact that it's now open source. I agree with you in general though.
  - hammyhavoc 4y ago
    Most probably because the GitHub content will outlive the project homepage, especially when you consider that 4coder is no longer maintained, and thus the source is being made available. Seems logical to me.
dspillett 4y ago
From that page “Anticipated Next Version: 4.1.3 (beta), February 2020” so this release as open source along with the github repo being set to archive/read-only looks like an “I'm done. If a community wants to keep this alive, over to them…”. Nothing wrong with that, it is much better than complete abandonment in such a way as other people can't carry the torch even if they really want to, but it is a less positive situation than the headline suggests.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bitva77 4y ago

I love (not) these posts that assume we know what it is.

capableweb 4y ago
I love people who think everything has to be aimed for their consumption. Some things are aimed at a group of people, and written with that in mind. Someone closing a project/stopping maintenance of something, usually write directly to the group of users of the software. To expect everything to contain information about everything someone could not know, means everything would have to be extremely verbose. We have search engines, typing "4coder" and finding the website took me around 2 seconds, I'm sure you'd be able to do it just as fast.
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  I understand your perspective, but I disagree in this particular case. "Show HN" is obviously aimed at our consumption.
  - radlad 4y ago
    This is not a "Show HN." https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html https://news.ycombinator.com/showhn.html
    - paskozdilar 4y ago
      Hm. It was either removed, or I haven't seen the title properly. Still, the argument is the same - a person is posting an article on a news site for the sole purpose of other people seeing (consuming) it. I consider it basic decency to create a good presentation when you're showing something in people's news feed.
      - Nicksil 4y ago
        >Still, the argument is the same - a person is posting an article on a news site for the sole purpose of other people seeing (consuming) it. >I consider it basic decency to create a good presentation when you're showing something in people's news feed. The individual posting the article may not be the owner of the code base thus making it impossible for the poster to alter the presentation. If the owner of the code base has not posted a link for others' "consumption," they would have conformed to your expectations.
        paskozdilar 4y ago
        > The individual posting the article may not be the owner of the code base Good point, I didn't consider that. The point of view I'm coming from is that while it's impossible to put all possible information in a README (and such level of detail would probably make it even less readable, like Whitehead and Russel's Principia Mathematica) - there are some things that are reasonable to expect on any kind of public repository (I assume it's a public repository because of the README's public-facing style - "Welcome to the 4coder code base. [...] In this readme you will find: [...]"), such as "what is the purpose of this program". I know nobody owes anything to nobody, and such criticism might be seen as rude - since we're basically criticizing volunteers - but consider the fact that feedback is a major part of how we figure out our mistakes. If someone is posting their work online, it would be reasonable to assume that they care about their work and want to make it better. Without (constructive) criticism, they would never receive the feedback required for improving. Praise is pleasant and should be given when it's due, but criticism is also useful information.
  - __ryan__ 4y ago
    Well, anyone can post a link to HN but only the project author can adjust the project’s README. Perhaps a better URL exists, but also perhaps not everything on HN has to be for everyone on HN. This is obviously news for people who know what 4Coder is, not necessarily meant to onboard people who don’t want to look up what 4Coder is. Edit: grammar
- dspillett 4y ago
  > I love people who think everything has to be aimed for their consumption. I love how people don't bother providing information that would be easy to provide, the URL to the website would be handy as here it isn't even included in the README on github, then people get all het up when others mention the lack of information.
- masukomi 4y ago
  I love people who think that they have any semblance of an idea of who will see or read their stuff. It's so pre-Gutenberg of them. ;) You don't have to write your things FOR EVERYONE but it isn't unreasonable to suggest that folks are going to link to random projects on github and that other folks may end up on said project through unexpected means, and with no context, or with unexpected context. It probably follows that that _maybe_ spending the time to write _one sentence_ to describe WTF you're looking if you want ANYONE to consume it isn't unreasonable.

jordanmorgan10 4y ago

They will tell stories of you

AdmiralAsshat 4y ago

I wish the stock README.md template for every project started with: "What the hell is ________?"

zokier 4y ago
I find it bit of a peculiarity of HN that GH links, no matter how non-descriptive, are so often preferred over projects main home pages.
- Barrin92 4y ago
  with smaller projects it's pretty common that HN hugs the site to death
- unsafecast 4y ago
  In this particular case, the github link makes a bit more sense, as the main topic of discussion was the fact that it's now open source. I agree with you in general though.
- hammyhavoc 4y ago
  Most probably because the GitHub content will outlive the project homepage, especially when you consider that 4coder is no longer maintained, and thus the source is being made available. Seems logical to me.

dspillett 4y ago

From that page “Anticipated Next Version: 4.1.3 (beta), February 2020” so this release as open source along with the github repo being set to archive/read-only looks like an “I'm done. If a community wants to keep this alive, over to them…”. Nothing wrong with that, it is much better than complete abandonment in such a way as other people can't carry the torch even if they really want to, but it is a less positive situation than the headline suggests.