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I've clocked some time online with the "rationalists". I have learned some interesting things. But I was going to build a custom religion designed to make mott

by jerf 4y ago

I've clocked some time online with the "rationalists". I have learned some interesting things. But I was going to build a custom religion designed to make motte & bailey arguments in favor of it easy, it would probably look a lot like "rationalism". "It's not a religion, we just apply these precepts of rationality rationally! Look, the rational application of rational principles, rationally, is all but in the name!" I actually agree that not everyone there treats it like a religion. There are people like me who just cruise by, pick some fruit, learn some things, apply some useful things, and get on with it. But there are absolutely also people for whom it is their religion. Ironically, as IIRC some of the thought leaders have themselves pointed out (usually in the form of an agonized, hair-pulling sort of "Why, Bayes, why?" sort of post), there is very little rational reason to believe that improving rationality will lead to a lot of massively better life outcomes; the evidence of this is thin on the field. (Picking up some things around the edges, absolutely. But the hope that you suddenly Solved Life because you're "more rational" seems to be pretty poorly founded in reality.)

FeepingCreature 4y ago
I agree, I just think that the way in which LessWrong goes wrong is largely an entirely different way in which the parent depicts us as going wrong. :P > improving rationality will lead to a lot of massively better life outcomes IMO, to defend this, I'd argue for most people there's maybe oom of ten decisions over a lifetime that in hindsight could turn out to be really important, and if you can keep a calm head and think about it in those moments, you can potentially get a lot of benefits. Now usually there'll be lots of advice for those, and the "rational" (in the advertised, not actual, sense) answer is not always the best one, but even just stepping back, thinking about it, trying to find out how to gather evidence about it, can already possibly help out a ton. Most people get by fine doing well enough. And it doesn't take rationality to tell you not to invest your savings in scams, so the upside is limited. But for those few times where it really matters, there are some genuinely useful tools in there, IMO. (Though personally, I'm in it for the philosophy.)

by jerf 4y ago

FeepingCreature 4y ago

I agree, I just think that the way in which LessWrong goes wrong is largely an entirely different way in which the parent depicts us as going wrong. :P > improving rationality will lead to a lot of massively better life outcomes IMO, to defend this, I'd argue for most people there's maybe oom of ten decisions over a lifetime that in hindsight could turn out to be really important, and if you can keep a calm head and think about it in those moments, you can potentially get a lot of benefits. Now usually there'll be lots of advice for those, and the "rational" (in the advertised, not actual, sense) answer is not always the best one, but even just stepping back, thinking about it, trying to find out how to gather evidence about it, can already possibly help out a ton. Most people get by fine doing well enough. And it doesn't take rationality to tell you not to invest your savings in scams, so the upside is limited. But for those few times where it really matters, there are some genuinely useful tools in there, IMO. (Though personally, I'm in it for the philosophy.)