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Exactly - the grandparent is asking “can a true copy left / Free Software license protect a young startup from Amazon reselling their software”, and my assertio

by jitl 4y ago

Exactly - the grandparent is asking “can a true copy left / Free Software license protect a young startup from Amazon reselling their software”, and my assertion is no, it cant.

josephcsible 4y ago
Can you give an example of an AGPL product being resold by Amazon or someone like them?
- adastra22 4y ago
  Mastodon is AGPL and there are various cloud hosting providers. There really aren't that many popular AGPL server software to start with though, so it's an unfairly biased question.
- jitl 4y ago
  MongoDB is the most famous example to transition from AGPL to a closed license. MongoDB was AGPL until October 16, 2018. Since October 16, 2018, it uses Server Side Public License (SSPL), which they authored. From their FAQ: > The market is quickly moving to consume most software as a service. This is a time of incredible opportunity for open source projects, with the potential to foster a new wave of great open source server side software. The reality, however, is that once an open source project becomes interesting, it is too easy for large cloud vendors to capture all the value but contribute nothing back to the community. HN discussion from 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18229452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18229452 FAQ: https://www.mongodb.com/licensing/server-side-public-license/faq https://www.mongodb.com/licensing/server-side-public-license... Today, MongoDB is an AWS partner: https://aws.amazon.com/quickstart/architecture/mongodb/ https://aws.amazon.com/quickstart/architecture/mongodb/ The most recent notable example of open-source software going closed because of Amazon specifically is Elasticsearch, which switched from Apache to SSPL. The announcement blog post was titled "Amazon: NOT OK - why we had to change Elastic licensing". HN discussion from 2021: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25833781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25833781 FAQ: https://www.elastic.co/pricing/faq/licensing https://www.elastic.co/pricing/faq/licensing
  - josephcsible 4y ago
    MongoDB is definitely an example. Did switching licenses actually "fix" their "problem" though? And ElasticSearch doesn't count since it was a pushover license before and not the AGPL.
goodpoint 4y ago
AGPL strikes a balance between the needs of users, upstream and intermediate developers. Here [A]GPL is Schrödinger's license. At the same time people complain that it's too restrictive and not restrictive enough. If you want to completely prohibit any SaaS usage closed source is the only option, like BSL. And I'll stay away from your software.

by jitl 4y ago

Exactly - the grandparent is asking “can a true copy left / Free Software license protect a young startup from Amazon reselling their software”, and my assertion is no, it cant.

josephcsible 4y ago

Can you give an example of an AGPL product being resold by Amazon or someone like them?

adastra22 4y ago
Mastodon is AGPL and there are various cloud hosting providers. There really aren't that many popular AGPL server software to start with though, so it's an unfairly biased question.
jitl 4y ago
MongoDB is the most famous example to transition from AGPL to a closed license. MongoDB was AGPL until October 16, 2018. Since October 16, 2018, it uses Server Side Public License (SSPL), which they authored. From their FAQ: > The market is quickly moving to consume most software as a service. This is a time of incredible opportunity for open source projects, with the potential to foster a new wave of great open source server side software. The reality, however, is that once an open source project becomes interesting, it is too easy for large cloud vendors to capture all the value but contribute nothing back to the community. HN discussion from 2018: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18229452 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18229452 FAQ: https://www.mongodb.com/licensing/server-side-public-license/faq https://www.mongodb.com/licensing/server-side-public-license... Today, MongoDB is an AWS partner: https://aws.amazon.com/quickstart/architecture/mongodb/ https://aws.amazon.com/quickstart/architecture/mongodb/ The most recent notable example of open-source software going closed because of Amazon specifically is Elasticsearch, which switched from Apache to SSPL. The announcement blog post was titled "Amazon: NOT OK - why we had to change Elastic licensing". HN discussion from 2021: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25833781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25833781 FAQ: https://www.elastic.co/pricing/faq/licensing https://www.elastic.co/pricing/faq/licensing
- josephcsible 4y ago
  MongoDB is definitely an example. Did switching licenses actually "fix" their "problem" though? And ElasticSearch doesn't count since it was a pushover license before and not the AGPL.

goodpoint 4y ago

AGPL strikes a balance between the needs of users, upstream and intermediate developers. Here [A]GPL is Schrödinger's license. At the same time people complain that it's too restrictive and not restrictive enough. If you want to completely prohibit any SaaS usage closed source is the only option, like BSL. And I'll stay away from your software.