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> For the love of God, can we not simply decline, on Hacker News, to take seriously a man who arbitrarily specifies that equity training is 'Maoist'? No, we -

> For the love of God, can we not simply decline, on Hacker News, to take seriously a man who arbitrarily specifies that equity training is 'Maoist'? No, we - or at least I - do not decline to take seriously someone who (no doubt after many years of fighting the beast) uses a short and descriptive term for something which does in fact have many parallels with the way Mao organised students to take on established institutes. You may not like the comparison but that does not invalidate the fact that what goes under the term "equity training" oftens resembles struggle sessions. He could just as well have compared "equity training" to Scientology "training" intent on "rehabilitating the thetan" of a subject since there are parallels to those practices as well (just replace "body thetans" with "whiteness").

boppo1 4y ago
Has anyone clearly outlined the parallels point for point? This discussion seems to go in circles because one group recognizes some similarities, and the other group say's "oh,so anything you don't like is communism, huh?" Which, to be fair, is an appropriate response given that a huge swath of American conservatives (FOX News brand) do call everything they don't like communism. I think we need some sort of quantification of the similarities to move this discussion forward because there's good faith and bad faith on both sides and without quantification, the good faith people can't find one another.
- the_third_wave 4y ago
  Not one but several individuals have done just that, sometimes going into excruciating detail. James Lindsay (of the hoax grievance studies fame, co-author of "Cynical Theories" [1] - a book which goes a long way into answering this question) has lately made a career out of describing the ins and outs of these things [2 (and elsewhere on that site)]. Charles Pincourt (with Lindsay as editor) wrote Counter Wokecraft: A Field Manual for Combatting the Woke in the University and Beyond [3] which is a more practical description on how to combat this ideology where it has taken hold. There are many other sources but these are a good start. [1] https://cynicaltheories.com/ https://cynicaltheories.com/ [1] https://newdiscourses.com/tag/critical-education-theory/ https://newdiscourses.com/tag/critical-education-theory/ [3] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59606831-counter-wokecraft https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59606831-counter-wokecra...
  - boppo1 4y ago
    Hey thanks this is useful! Saves me some time on having to start with doing it myself. I know some people whose minds are slowly being taken over by this ideology, it's like watching a zombification. I'm not kidding, it's like talking to people I don't know or recognize, their assessment of very basic things is more and more removed from reality.
    - the_third_wave 4y ago
      In his netcasts James Lindsay has lately been going a bit heavy on the XXX is communism as well which probably does not help him in getting his message across. While there is truth to the origins of the movement he is criticising being found in and/or influenced by radical socialist and communist spheres his constant claims of 'Marxism' or ´Communism' make it (too) easy to dismiss him as 'yet another extreme-right crackpot' or one of the other epithets bandied around so often nowadays. He is a better writer than he is a verbal communicator so I'd advice you to read before you listen. It also saves you from having to endure him trying to pronounce German words, a language which he does not master but which plays a large role in the history of the ideas which have led to the current ideological witches' brew.

boppo1 4y ago

Has anyone clearly outlined the parallels point for point? This discussion seems to go in circles because one group recognizes some similarities, and the other group say's "oh,so anything you don't like is communism, huh?" Which, to be fair, is an appropriate response given that a huge swath of American conservatives (FOX News brand) do call everything they don't like communism. I think we need some sort of quantification of the similarities to move this discussion forward because there's good faith and bad faith on both sides and without quantification, the good faith people can't find one another.

the_third_wave 4y ago
Not one but several individuals have done just that, sometimes going into excruciating detail. James Lindsay (of the hoax grievance studies fame, co-author of "Cynical Theories" [1] - a book which goes a long way into answering this question) has lately made a career out of describing the ins and outs of these things [2 (and elsewhere on that site)]. Charles Pincourt (with Lindsay as editor) wrote Counter Wokecraft: A Field Manual for Combatting the Woke in the University and Beyond [3] which is a more practical description on how to combat this ideology where it has taken hold. There are many other sources but these are a good start. [1] https://cynicaltheories.com/ https://cynicaltheories.com/ [1] https://newdiscourses.com/tag/critical-education-theory/ https://newdiscourses.com/tag/critical-education-theory/ [3] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59606831-counter-wokecraft https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/59606831-counter-wokecra...
- boppo1 4y ago
  Hey thanks this is useful! Saves me some time on having to start with doing it myself. I know some people whose minds are slowly being taken over by this ideology, it's like watching a zombification. I'm not kidding, it's like talking to people I don't know or recognize, their assessment of very basic things is more and more removed from reality.
  - the_third_wave 4y ago
    In his netcasts James Lindsay has lately been going a bit heavy on the XXX is communism as well which probably does not help him in getting his message across. While there is truth to the origins of the movement he is criticising being found in and/or influenced by radical socialist and communist spheres his constant claims of 'Marxism' or ´Communism' make it (too) easy to dismiss him as 'yet another extreme-right crackpot' or one of the other epithets bandied around so often nowadays. He is a better writer than he is a verbal communicator so I'd advice you to read before you listen. It also saves you from having to endure him trying to pronounce German words, a language which he does not master but which plays a large role in the history of the ideas which have led to the current ideological witches' brew.