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Your argument falls under the lump of labour fallacy, a lot of new jobs were created when we had cheaper chips. If it was a loss then it wouldn't have been an e

Your argument falls under the lump of labour fallacy, a lot of new jobs were created when we had cheaper chips. If it was a loss then it wouldn't have been an economic loss :)

samstave 4y ago
Sure, but unless we didnt actually move those industries/services/jobs off-shore - we would never truly know what would have resulted. We can only look at the outcome as being satisfactory to the statistics of politicians and economists - rather than the effect upon the actual families, towns, and cottage support undustries around those enterprises which left the USA... Good to see that "well, it looks good on paper" -- because the labour fallacy also suffers from thinking that all the new shit we do in the US would not have happened. Further - the new jobs that have been created (aside from the tech industry are things like massive fastfood, and consuption-capital-growth... If I an wrong, I would like to learn... but this appears to be the emgergent reality of the US, as evidenced by the ridiculous situation this country is in economically. (No, Oligarch level wealth creation and stock market actions for the 1% and corporate/hedge funds profits are not the indicators of a truly strong economy: The health, happiness, prosperity of the populous and the quality of both the countries infrastructure and of life is. And in these regard, imo, USA is flailing horrifically. --- Also, and when we look at the strength of the pretty much every industry in the US, such as tech, pharma, healthcare, finance, etc... Every single one of them is 100% dependent on the brain-importation from other countries. Yet, we can't even service the needs of the overall citizenry.
- scottcodie 4y ago
  To focus on social welfare for a moment, we don't do enough to offset the effects of a major industry leaving a town. Many people don't relocate to continue to be productive and so we end up with large amounts of poverty in those areas. I think relocation benefits should be part of the social safety net in the US, as areas see more loss of industry from competition. Wage increases are also causing industries to leave as competition heats up which is in a large part caused by our disastrous housing and healthcare situation driving up the cost of living.
  - samstave 4y ago
    >Many people don't relocate to continue to be productive Many people can't relocate to continue to be productive ; due to the cost of living, the substance living that the current system provides to 90% of the population. If you look at vast swaths of jobs, they are 100% barely substance (work to ensure you dont die, only)
    - maxfurman 4y ago
      I think the word you are looking for is "subsistence"
      - samstave 4y ago
        Obviously, as it was further up in thread... it was a typo. Thanks
- wolverine876 4y ago
  > We can only look at the outcome as being satisfactory to the statistics of politicians and economists - rather than the effect upon the actual families, towns, and cottage support undustries around those enterprises Where do you think the chip industry and every other industry came from, but from resources freed up when other industries and companies failed. Look at the composition of economic output 50 and 100 years ago and now - most of that is gone and less productive than what we do now. Certainly having government driven by lobbyists to pick the 'winners', rather than the marketplace, isn't going to help our economy. It will temporarily help the lobbyists' clients.
  - samstave 4y ago

Your argument falls under the lump of labour fallacy, a lot of new jobs were created when we had cheaper chips. If it was a loss then it wouldn't have been an economic loss :)

samstave 4y ago

Sure, but unless we didnt actually move those industries/services/jobs off-shore - we would never truly know what would have resulted. We can only look at the outcome as being satisfactory to the statistics of politicians and economists - rather than the effect upon the actual families, towns, and cottage support undustries around those enterprises which left the USA... Good to see that "well, it looks good on paper" -- because the labour fallacy also suffers from thinking that all the new shit we do in the US would not have happened. Further - the new jobs that have been created (aside from the tech industry are things like massive fastfood, and consuption-capital-growth... If I an wrong, I would like to learn... but this appears to be the emgergent reality of the US, as evidenced by the ridiculous situation this country is in economically. (No, Oligarch level wealth creation and stock market actions for the 1% and corporate/hedge funds profits are not the indicators of a truly strong economy: The health, happiness, prosperity of the populous and the quality of both the countries infrastructure and of life is. And in these regard, imo, USA is flailing horrifically. --- Also, and when we look at the strength of the pretty much every industry in the US, such as tech, pharma, healthcare, finance, etc... Every single one of them is 100% dependent on the brain-importation from other countries. Yet, we can't even service the needs of the overall citizenry.

scottcodie 4y ago
To focus on social welfare for a moment, we don't do enough to offset the effects of a major industry leaving a town. Many people don't relocate to continue to be productive and so we end up with large amounts of poverty in those areas. I think relocation benefits should be part of the social safety net in the US, as areas see more loss of industry from competition. Wage increases are also causing industries to leave as competition heats up which is in a large part caused by our disastrous housing and healthcare situation driving up the cost of living.
- samstave 4y ago
  >Many people don't relocate to continue to be productive Many people can't relocate to continue to be productive ; due to the cost of living, the substance living that the current system provides to 90% of the population. If you look at vast swaths of jobs, they are 100% barely substance (work to ensure you dont die, only)
  - maxfurman 4y ago
    I think the word you are looking for is "subsistence"
    - samstave 4y ago
      Obviously, as it was further up in thread... it was a typo. Thanks
wolverine876 4y ago
> We can only look at the outcome as being satisfactory to the statistics of politicians and economists - rather than the effect upon the actual families, towns, and cottage support undustries around those enterprises Where do you think the chip industry and every other industry came from, but from resources freed up when other industries and companies failed. Look at the composition of economic output 50 and 100 years ago and now - most of that is gone and less productive than what we do now. Certainly having government driven by lobbyists to pick the 'winners', rather than the marketplace, isn't going to help our economy. It will temporarily help the lobbyists' clients.
- samstave 4y ago