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Just to chime in here for anybody reading along: I work full time as a software developer doing react. I have got literally no idea what almost everything you

Just to chime in here for anybody reading along: I work full time as a software developer doing react. I have got literally no idea what almost everything you listed is. "Broccoli"? I have heard: grunt, gulp, webpack, metro, redux, and recoil. The rest of those could be sarcasm for all I know.

meowtimemania 4y ago
Broccoli I believe is still used to build ember projects
ricardobeat 4y ago
These are only the mainstream ones I can remember, there have been a ton more! I guess if you've started post-2018 things have been a bit more stable, but there was quite a bit of churn to get here. And it's still happening - no two React projects are alike even in the enterprise. https://github.com/broccolijs/broccoli https://github.com/broccolijs/broccoli
- mccorrinall 4y ago
  That’s because react is a library, and not a framework. React doesn’t have opinions, that’s why you can find 300 state management libraries and 200 routers which do the same thing, just in different ways.
  - throw_m239339 4y ago
    > That’s because react is a library, and not a framework. React should be considered a framework. React absolutely imposes a data model (unidirectional workflow) to the developer thus a certain code structure. The fact that it is light weight compared to Angular doesn't change the fact that React is a front end framework. React usage completely replaces the traditional way to interact with the DOM and manage DOM events, thus abstracting it. > React doesn’t have opinions, React becomes very hard to use if your data model isn't organized to suit React architecture. It doesn't have opinions about everything (like AJAX or SPA routing) but it absolutely has an opinion about how you data objects should be structured.
    - jhanschoo 4y ago
      Indeed, it's unfortunate that React bills itself, in its front-page copy, as a library and not a framework, out of a desire to emphasize its portability and being "lightweight"; but the day-to-day of building a React app is more that of working in a framework than calling library functions.
    - mccorrinall 4y ago
      Quote from reactjs.org: A JavaScript library for building user interfaces Literally on the start page
abraxas 4y ago
If you don't know these words you haven't been coding JS long enough. Those like myself who started in 2014 or earlier know all of those and more (anyone still remember shrinkwrap for example)?
- xwolfi 4y ago
  Depends HOW you coded. I started JS at 11 yo in 2001, and became fulltime around 2012 - 2 more years of JS than you, I'm your grandaddy in this ever changing mess... I do not know Broccoli either. Googling it: "A fast, reliable asset pipeline, supporting constant-time rebuilds and compact build definitions" I raise my eyes to the ceiling and whine "why the hell isn't there an Oracle or IBM for JS to finally standardize just building crap". It's probably cause I switched 4 years ago from the typical perma-migration grind to rarely using any framework and coding JS like I code the backend. Simple service classes in pure JS, rare dependencies, simple build. I once ditched years of work by a team of 40 to rewrite "everything" in low level javascript and showed the guys that what we spent all this years writing, really, was useless: did we need that enormous angular runtime config resolver that would draw generic components reading from crafted json configuration ? Or could we just write the damn things as we mean it in... javascript directly ? Don't use a JS framework as long as you can help it, just the simple fact you can trace the whole function chain in a few seconds, vs reverse engineering the damn VueJS, or React, or Angular (does that monster even exist anymore, we hear about it a lot less than when it was all-encompassing, 8 years ago) plumbing, is worth it. And son, if you want some war stories from your granddad, have you heard of jQuery ? :D
  - abraxas 4y ago
    Very, very few places will let you not use a framework nowadays. There is a ton of cargo culting around JS frameworks and coding vanilla is pretty much heresy land these days. Personal projects? Go for it. Commercial apps built for your employer? Good luck with that. Not only will you be raked over the coals for "reinventing the wheel" you'll also be blamed for any stumble along the way, whether it's related to using vanilla or not. > if you want some war stories from your granddad, have you heard of jQuery ? :D Bah, whippernsapper! I cut my baby web teeth on CGI and spent the bulk of it in Struts and JSF. Remember THOSE?

meowtimemania 4y ago

Broccoli I believe is still used to build ember projects

ricardobeat 4y ago

These are only the mainstream ones I can remember, there have been a ton more! I guess if you've started post-2018 things have been a bit more stable, but there was quite a bit of churn to get here. And it's still happening - no two React projects are alike even in the enterprise. https://github.com/broccolijs/broccoli https://github.com/broccolijs/broccoli

mccorrinall 4y ago
That’s because react is a library, and not a framework. React doesn’t have opinions, that’s why you can find 300 state management libraries and 200 routers which do the same thing, just in different ways.
- throw_m239339 4y ago
  > That’s because react is a library, and not a framework. React should be considered a framework. React absolutely imposes a data model (unidirectional workflow) to the developer thus a certain code structure. The fact that it is light weight compared to Angular doesn't change the fact that React is a front end framework. React usage completely replaces the traditional way to interact with the DOM and manage DOM events, thus abstracting it. > React doesn’t have opinions, React becomes very hard to use if your data model isn't organized to suit React architecture. It doesn't have opinions about everything (like AJAX or SPA routing) but it absolutely has an opinion about how you data objects should be structured.
  - jhanschoo 4y ago
    Indeed, it's unfortunate that React bills itself, in its front-page copy, as a library and not a framework, out of a desire to emphasize its portability and being "lightweight"; but the day-to-day of building a React app is more that of working in a framework than calling library functions.
  - mccorrinall 4y ago
    Quote from reactjs.org: A JavaScript library for building user interfaces Literally on the start page

abraxas 4y ago

If you don't know these words you haven't been coding JS long enough. Those like myself who started in 2014 or earlier know all of those and more (anyone still remember shrinkwrap for example)?

xwolfi 4y ago
Depends HOW you coded. I started JS at 11 yo in 2001, and became fulltime around 2012 - 2 more years of JS than you, I'm your grandaddy in this ever changing mess... I do not know Broccoli either. Googling it: "A fast, reliable asset pipeline, supporting constant-time rebuilds and compact build definitions" I raise my eyes to the ceiling and whine "why the hell isn't there an Oracle or IBM for JS to finally standardize just building crap". It's probably cause I switched 4 years ago from the typical perma-migration grind to rarely using any framework and coding JS like I code the backend. Simple service classes in pure JS, rare dependencies, simple build. I once ditched years of work by a team of 40 to rewrite "everything" in low level javascript and showed the guys that what we spent all this years writing, really, was useless: did we need that enormous angular runtime config resolver that would draw generic components reading from crafted json configuration ? Or could we just write the damn things as we mean it in... javascript directly ? Don't use a JS framework as long as you can help it, just the simple fact you can trace the whole function chain in a few seconds, vs reverse engineering the damn VueJS, or React, or Angular (does that monster even exist anymore, we hear about it a lot less than when it was all-encompassing, 8 years ago) plumbing, is worth it. And son, if you want some war stories from your granddad, have you heard of jQuery ? :D
- abraxas 4y ago
  Very, very few places will let you not use a framework nowadays. There is a ton of cargo culting around JS frameworks and coding vanilla is pretty much heresy land these days. Personal projects? Go for it. Commercial apps built for your employer? Good luck with that. Not only will you be raked over the coals for "reinventing the wheel" you'll also be blamed for any stumble along the way, whether it's related to using vanilla or not. > if you want some war stories from your granddad, have you heard of jQuery ? :D Bah, whippernsapper! I cut my baby web teeth on CGI and spent the bulk of it in Struts and JSF. Remember THOSE?