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So I wonder if anybody here could compare what Phoenix has vs Hsinchu in Taiwan. It seems like the closest the US has to what Taiwan has.. (Intel, new TSMC, var
by xt00 4y ago
So I wonder if anybody here could compare what Phoenix has vs Hsinchu in Taiwan. It seems like the closest the US has to what Taiwan has.. (Intel, new TSMC, various other fabs are there).. so making Phoenix the Mecca of semiconductor jobs in the US seems like a pretty smart goal .. while the federal govt loves to spread money around it seems wise to just say let’s be real folks, it’s way easier / efficient to pour gas on an existing fire than to build totally greenfield.. like pump tons of cash into the AZ universities for semiconductor work. But I wonder if people have some history / perspective on why people don’t say “oh you want to work in semi area? Go to Phoenix..”..
- Kadin 4y agoSeems a bit strange that Phoenix would be a desirable place to build a fab, given how water-intensive most processes are. Yes, the water can and should be recycled... but it just seems weird to build a plant like that in one of the parts of the country that will probably never have enough fresh water, compared to other areas where they can't get it out of the way fast enough. Is it the labor pool there that makes it attractive? Energy costs? Something about state/local subsidies?
- windowsrookie 4y agoThe reason I heard is that Phoenix is seismically stabile, and weather stabile. Both of those things can cause power outages which are incredibly expensive at a fab.
- whatshisface 4y agoCan power outages be more expensive than diesel?
- Vecr 4y agoQuakes and flooding can kill generators. You can be smart and build them on elevated earthworks, but if the event is severe enough something will fail.
- 55873445216111 4y agoFabs require 10's of MW continuous load. Not feasible to backup with diesel generator.
- justinjlynn 4y agoRather feasible with a set of natural gas turbine plants. Pipelines and local storage would be expensive but doable - depending on the economic damage of the plant going offline. Cost share it with a data centre facility to reduce the per megawatt cost even further.
- 55873445216111 4y agoYes. But in layman's terms, wouldn't you just call that a "power plant"?
- justinjlynn 4y agoI mean, so too is a genset a powerplant. It's really just a question of scale and generation capacity. Imagine we're talking about a cell versus a battery. Same thing really.
- mook 4y agoCompared to Taiwan, land of earthquakes and typhoons. It's… amazing that things even work in Hsinchu?
- newsclues 4y agoAnd nuclear power https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palo_Verde_Nuclear_Generating_Station https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palo_Verde_Nuclear_Generatin...
- 8note 4y agoThe water involved is mostly recoverable and reusable While there's cost involved, its shortage probably won't be a bottleneck?
- rocqua 4y agoI recall a video by asianometry stating that best case water re-use is about 70%. That will be rough in the desert.
- ac29 4y agoIntel is funding a bunch of water projects in Arizona with the goal to be net postive in water use: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/environment/water-restoration-arizona.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/environment/water-re...
- ezsmi 4y agoAgriculture and municipal uses much more water than industry in AZ. Shockingly even with the population growth total state water use hasn’t increased due to conservation efforts. https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-environment/2019/02/12/arizona-water-usage-state-uses-less-now-than-1957/2806899002/ https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-environme...
- 7speter 4y agoPhoenix is geologically dead, no seismic disruptions to mess up any of the lithographic processes. Also the region is a desert (Arizona seems like a clever way to say the science fiction sounding “Arid Zone,” doesn’t it?) so it shouldn’t be prone to flooding, though lots of potential for static electricity, iirc, but I guess these companies have some way of easily preventing that?
- raziel2701 4y agoDoesn't a fab need to consume tons of water? That whole southwest are of the US is entering longer and longer periods of drought. Seems like setting up shop further north into a water-rich area would be better.
- jjtheblunt 4y ago"That whole southwest area" is too generalized, as Arizona, by necessity, has been expert at water use in contrast to what surrounds Arizona. (can't find the citation that i want for that, though)
- genmud 4y agoIronically the new TSMC plant is being built down the street from a place that uses dynamite for its rock quarry. I live about the same distance from the quarry as TSMC is and I can sometimes feel/hear them when they use explosives. I wonder if they know yet, lol.
- ravel-bar-foo 4y agoThe value of a rock quarry is probably so small relative to a fab that this story ends in TSMC buying out and shutting down the quarry.
- 7speter 4y agoIsnt the intel fab across the street from the tsmc fab?
- jjtheblunt 4y agoMotorola Semiconductor Product Sector division was in Phoenix for decades