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I’ve been a very delighted user of Sway for at least 5 years and am grateful for the work Drew has put into it. I once made a trivial PR to sway that was maybe

I’ve been a very delighted user of Sway for at least 5 years and am grateful for the work Drew has put into it. I once made a trivial PR to sway that was maybe 6 chars in total but Drew made sure I felt welcomed and even mentioned me in the list of contributors. I find it a bit puzzling why someone who contributes so much to the community gets so much hate. Even if the opinions might not always be popular, the volume and quality of his work should speak much louder than words.

mustache_kimono 4y ago
> I find it a bit puzzling why someone who contributes so much to the community gets so much hate. Watch out, because even this self-pitying blog post manages to find time to reach out and troll the Rust community. Internet troll gets back internet hate is not exactly unexpected right? And we all know Drew says some trollish things sometimes. I don't think the way that some handle it and him is anywhere near correct, but Drew might consider the way he presents himself isn't always conducive to good faith disagreement.
- synu 4y ago
  That sums it up nicely. I put my heart and soul into a product that at one point Drew personally decided was harmful and worthy of self righteous scorn, and that wasn’t very fun, but I don’t wish the same back on him. It’s just kind of the way people behave on the internet sometimes, and you can’t take it too seriously.
- caslon 4y ago
  He doesn't "troll" the Rust community at all in the post. The line about the borrow checker was directly snagged from a lobsters or HN thread around Hare's announcement.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - lifthrasiir 4y ago
    Keep in mind that the line was written by some throw-away account [1]. To suggest that it is anything to do with the broader Rust community is trolling. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=borrow%20checker%20irresponsible&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
    - caslon 4y ago
      No, it isn't, and that "throwaway" account has hundreds of karma. Also, wasn't your comment here longer a second ago? I seem to recall it having a bit on "or some other form of memory safety," which proves the point.
      - lifthrasiir 4y ago
        > No, it isn't, and that "throwaway" account has hundreds of karma. That account was registered only two months ago, enough to be classified as such. And actually the account seems to have garnered karma mostly from cryptocurrency criticism (which is a surefire way to get or lose lots of karma in HN). > Also, wasn't your comment here longer a second ago? I seem to recall it having a bit on "or some other form of memory safety," which proves the point. Sorry for that, I forgot to add an intervening sentence and realized that the comment is better without the (original) second sentence. (For the context, the removed sentence was roughly "Drew could have gotten far less criticism if he had a roadmap about safety, not necessarily borrow checker but even something like sanitizers or instrumention would suffice". I originally put this sentence to show that the "safety" criticism to Hare is not just from Rust proponents, but it wouldn't work without further quantification.)
        pvg 4y ago
        That account was registered only two months ago, enough to be classified as such. And actually the account seems to have garnered karma mostly from cryptocurrency criticism (which is a surefire way to get or lose lots of karma in HN). You've been here long enough to know you can't innuendo at other users like this, however wrong they may be. Extra lame if they're not part of the conversation to begin with.
  - mustache_kimono 4y ago
    The point was -- was that line really necessary? Was it anything more than a throwaway line, providing more heat than light? If he wants some sympathy and, wow, does it ever seem like he wants some sympathy, couldn't he just have avoided this incendiary nonsense? The answer is, of course not, this is Internet Troll Drew DeVault.
    - layer8 4y ago
      I honestly don’t understand why someone should feel triggered by that sentence, unless they actually agree with its content in a dogmatic way. As a fan of effect systems, I found it an amusing hyperbole.
      - mustache_kimono 4y ago
        > I honestly don’t understand why someone should feel triggered by that sentence, unless they actually agree with its content in a dogmatic way. As a fan of effect systems, I found it an amusing hyperbole. Getting into an "I'm not triggered, you're the one who is triggered" discussion on the Internet is about as dumb as thinking Drew DeVault is a software intellectual.
fsociety 4y ago
Drew can be toxic at times, and on the internet you reap what you sow in smaller communities. That doesn’t excuse the negativity but instead attributes why he is experiencing this hate.
- akagusu 4y ago
  let's blame the victim, right?
mattl 4y ago
Sway?
- shiryel 4y ago
  https://swaywm.org/ https://swaywm.org/
  - mattl 4y ago
    Is this common? I’ve not heard of this.
    - jamal-kumar 4y ago
      It's basically i3 where you can mostly just drop in the config, but it works on top of wayland instead.
    - 0x6c6f6c 4y ago
      In addition to the other post: In order to be someone who would use this project, you have to be a very specific niche of tech. Linux user, not Nvidia GPU, interested in custom tiling window managers (i3) AND next generation display protocols (Wayland). I use this on my Thinkpad T510 but can't even run it on my desktop because of (Nvidia's) hardware incompatibilities.
    - kaba0 4y ago
      Other than what the other commenters wrote, there is also a lower level library called wlroots which is used by basically every “niche” wayland server. So if you are not plasma or gnome and want to write a wayland compositor you will more than likely just depend on this library as well.
andrenth 4y ago
There’s so much hate towards Drew that the other day we had a major name of fly.io here defending Google engineering malpractices just because Drew was on the receiving end of it. Well, at least it made me sure I’ll never use their services.
- ghoward 4y ago
  Thank you for letting me know that someone defending Google was part of fly.io. Now I won't use them either.
  - 50 4y ago
    I wouldn't be too quick to discredit something merely on hearsay. Drew DeVault from Sourcehut and Thomas Ptacek from Fly.io are seemingly two of the smartest people in the software space I've come across this past year or so.
    - ghoward 4y ago
      Smart does not matter if there is no ethics, in my opinion. In fact, it's worse in that case.
- akagusu 4y ago
  Can you provide a link for this, please (I'm not saying it is not true, I just want more context)?
blippage 4y ago

mustache_kimono 4y ago

> I find it a bit puzzling why someone who contributes so much to the community gets so much hate. Watch out, because even this self-pitying blog post manages to find time to reach out and troll the Rust community. Internet troll gets back internet hate is not exactly unexpected right? And we all know Drew says some trollish things sometimes. I don't think the way that some handle it and him is anywhere near correct, but Drew might consider the way he presents himself isn't always conducive to good faith disagreement.

synu 4y ago
That sums it up nicely. I put my heart and soul into a product that at one point Drew personally decided was harmful and worthy of self righteous scorn, and that wasn’t very fun, but I don’t wish the same back on him. It’s just kind of the way people behave on the internet sometimes, and you can’t take it too seriously.
caslon 4y ago
He doesn't "troll" the Rust community at all in the post. The line about the borrow checker was directly snagged from a lobsters or HN thread around Hare's announcement.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- lifthrasiir 4y ago
  Keep in mind that the line was written by some throw-away account [1]. To suggest that it is anything to do with the broader Rust community is trolling. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=borrow%20checker%20irresponsible&sort=byPopularity&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
  - caslon 4y ago
    No, it isn't, and that "throwaway" account has hundreds of karma. Also, wasn't your comment here longer a second ago? I seem to recall it having a bit on "or some other form of memory safety," which proves the point.
    - lifthrasiir 4y ago
      > No, it isn't, and that "throwaway" account has hundreds of karma. That account was registered only two months ago, enough to be classified as such. And actually the account seems to have garnered karma mostly from cryptocurrency criticism (which is a surefire way to get or lose lots of karma in HN). > Also, wasn't your comment here longer a second ago? I seem to recall it having a bit on "or some other form of memory safety," which proves the point. Sorry for that, I forgot to add an intervening sentence and realized that the comment is better without the (original) second sentence. (For the context, the removed sentence was roughly "Drew could have gotten far less criticism if he had a roadmap about safety, not necessarily borrow checker but even something like sanitizers or instrumention would suffice". I originally put this sentence to show that the "safety" criticism to Hare is not just from Rust proponents, but it wouldn't work without further quantification.)
      - pvg 4y ago
        That account was registered only two months ago, enough to be classified as such. And actually the account seems to have garnered karma mostly from cryptocurrency criticism (which is a surefire way to get or lose lots of karma in HN). You've been here long enough to know you can't innuendo at other users like this, however wrong they may be. Extra lame if they're not part of the conversation to begin with.
- mustache_kimono 4y ago
  The point was -- was that line really necessary? Was it anything more than a throwaway line, providing more heat than light? If he wants some sympathy and, wow, does it ever seem like he wants some sympathy, couldn't he just have avoided this incendiary nonsense? The answer is, of course not, this is Internet Troll Drew DeVault.
  - layer8 4y ago
    I honestly don’t understand why someone should feel triggered by that sentence, unless they actually agree with its content in a dogmatic way. As a fan of effect systems, I found it an amusing hyperbole.
    - mustache_kimono 4y ago
      > I honestly don’t understand why someone should feel triggered by that sentence, unless they actually agree with its content in a dogmatic way. As a fan of effect systems, I found it an amusing hyperbole. Getting into an "I'm not triggered, you're the one who is triggered" discussion on the Internet is about as dumb as thinking Drew DeVault is a software intellectual.

fsociety 4y ago

Drew can be toxic at times, and on the internet you reap what you sow in smaller communities. That doesn’t excuse the negativity but instead attributes why he is experiencing this hate.

akagusu 4y ago
let's blame the victim, right?

mattl 4y ago

Sway?

shiryel 4y ago
https://swaywm.org/ https://swaywm.org/
- mattl 4y ago
  Is this common? I’ve not heard of this.
  - jamal-kumar 4y ago
    It's basically i3 where you can mostly just drop in the config, but it works on top of wayland instead.
  - 0x6c6f6c 4y ago
    In addition to the other post: In order to be someone who would use this project, you have to be a very specific niche of tech. Linux user, not Nvidia GPU, interested in custom tiling window managers (i3) AND next generation display protocols (Wayland). I use this on my Thinkpad T510 but can't even run it on my desktop because of (Nvidia's) hardware incompatibilities.
  - kaba0 4y ago
    Other than what the other commenters wrote, there is also a lower level library called wlroots which is used by basically every “niche” wayland server. So if you are not plasma or gnome and want to write a wayland compositor you will more than likely just depend on this library as well.

andrenth 4y ago

There’s so much hate towards Drew that the other day we had a major name of fly.io here defending Google engineering malpractices just because Drew was on the receiving end of it. Well, at least it made me sure I’ll never use their services.

ghoward 4y ago
Thank you for letting me know that someone defending Google was part of fly.io. Now I won't use them either.
- 50 4y ago
  I wouldn't be too quick to discredit something merely on hearsay. Drew DeVault from Sourcehut and Thomas Ptacek from Fly.io are seemingly two of the smartest people in the software space I've come across this past year or so.
  - ghoward 4y ago
    Smart does not matter if there is no ethics, in my opinion. In fact, it's worse in that case.
akagusu 4y ago
Can you provide a link for this, please (I'm not saying it is not true, I just want more context)?

blippage 4y ago