4 ms·

I'm not sure such comparisons control very well for climate and cultural factors.

bildung 4y ago
Then just look at the distribution in the USA: Among the states with most homelessness per capita are: District of Columbia, New York, Oregon, Washington State, Alaska. Yes, also Californa, but California has most of everything, including housed people.
- swearwolf 4y ago
  Aside from D.C. and New York, these are all states within the ninth circuit court’s jurisdiction, and therefore are bound to the Martin v. Boise ruling, which allows public camping if there is not adequate shelter space available. If one part of the country allows that while the rest doesn’t, you’d expect that the homeless population will migrate over time to the more permissive area, which seems to be borne out in the growth of the homeless population on the West Coast since the ruling went into effect. Of course, we also mint plenty of new homeless ourselves with our astronomical housing costs, but I see a lot of people with out-of-state plates on the RVs they live in here in Oregon.
guerrilla 4y ago
Cultural factors like ethics that entail helping people and educating everyone that anyone could end up in a vulnerable situation and then dedicating resources to make sure everyone has a safety net in case they lose their job, have a mental illness, addiction or something else unexpected?
- thegrimmest 4y ago
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    That's not how it works here at all. First, universal insurance isn't "freeloading." Then, drug addiction is treated like an illness like anything else and everyone is entitled to help for it. Drug use is entirely illegal. > Why shouldn't individual suffer the consequences of their actions? The consequences of being laid off? Getting cancer? Having schizophrenia? Being an addict? They do suffer the consequences of all those things, none of which they caused and they get help with them.
    - thegrimmest 4y ago
      Help is fundamentally a voluntary action - you ask for it and the helper decides what help to give and how to give it. In other words, charity. This isn't what you're describing, you're describing compulsion and entitlement. If you need help, you should ask for it, and if others want to help you, they will. Otherwise, your misfortunes and your failures are entirely your own to deal with.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        It's literally insurance. Making up stories about how our system works isn't going to change that.
        thegrimmest 4y ago
        Insurance is also voluntary - you can opt in/out and shop around. We have that too. I think you're proposing some mandatory "I make bad decisions" insurance that we all have to pay into. No thanks, I'll opt out.
        guerrilla 4y ago
        Insurance can be voluntary or not. In any case, it is voluntary here. We're a democracy and chose this because it's good for us. We can also shop around. In contrast to the US though, ours is affordable for every resident.
  - DanBC 4y ago
    > These are failings of individuals and their decision making processes You have a deficient understanding of substance use disorders, which mostly have nothing to do with personal failings.
    - thegrimmest 4y ago
      I think that's a matter of perspective. You can slap a mental illness label on anyone who's failing to thrive, for any reason. It doesn't somehow invalidate the idea that we all make decisions about our lives that have long-term consequences. It's no secret that drugs are viciously harmful to health. Why try them, even once, knowing this?
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        Yes, a scientific and medical perspective, that is [1]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Risk_factors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Risk_factors
        thegrimmest 4y ago
        Just because something has risk factors doesn't mean it's not a decision.

Then just look at the distribution in the USA: Among the states with most homelessness per capita are: District of Columbia, New York, Oregon, Washington State, Alaska. Yes, also Californa, but California has most of everything, including housed people.

swearwolf 4y ago
Aside from D.C. and New York, these are all states within the ninth circuit court’s jurisdiction, and therefore are bound to the Martin v. Boise ruling, which allows public camping if there is not adequate shelter space available. If one part of the country allows that while the rest doesn’t, you’d expect that the homeless population will migrate over time to the more permissive area, which seems to be borne out in the growth of the homeless population on the West Coast since the ruling went into effect. Of course, we also mint plenty of new homeless ourselves with our astronomical housing costs, but I see a lot of people with out-of-state plates on the RVs they live in here in Oregon.

guerrilla 4y ago

Cultural factors like ethics that entail helping people and educating everyone that anyone could end up in a vulnerable situation and then dedicating resources to make sure everyone has a safety net in case they lose their job, have a mental illness, addiction or something else unexpected?

thegrimmest 4y ago
- guerrilla 4y ago
  That's not how it works here at all. First, universal insurance isn't "freeloading." Then, drug addiction is treated like an illness like anything else and everyone is entitled to help for it. Drug use is entirely illegal. > Why shouldn't individual suffer the consequences of their actions? The consequences of being laid off? Getting cancer? Having schizophrenia? Being an addict? They do suffer the consequences of all those things, none of which they caused and they get help with them.
  - thegrimmest 4y ago
    Help is fundamentally a voluntary action - you ask for it and the helper decides what help to give and how to give it. In other words, charity. This isn't what you're describing, you're describing compulsion and entitlement. If you need help, you should ask for it, and if others want to help you, they will. Otherwise, your misfortunes and your failures are entirely your own to deal with.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      It's literally insurance. Making up stories about how our system works isn't going to change that.
      - thegrimmest 4y ago
        Insurance is also voluntary - you can opt in/out and shop around. We have that too. I think you're proposing some mandatory "I make bad decisions" insurance that we all have to pay into. No thanks, I'll opt out.
        guerrilla 4y ago
        Insurance can be voluntary or not. In any case, it is voluntary here. We're a democracy and chose this because it's good for us. We can also shop around. In contrast to the US though, ours is affordable for every resident.
- DanBC 4y ago
  > These are failings of individuals and their decision making processes You have a deficient understanding of substance use disorders, which mostly have nothing to do with personal failings.
  - thegrimmest 4y ago
    I think that's a matter of perspective. You can slap a mental illness label on anyone who's failing to thrive, for any reason. It doesn't somehow invalidate the idea that we all make decisions about our lives that have long-term consequences. It's no secret that drugs are viciously harmful to health. Why try them, even once, knowing this?
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      Yes, a scientific and medical perspective, that is [1]. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Risk_factors https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction#Risk_factors
      - thegrimmest 4y ago
        Just because something has risk factors doesn't mean it's not a decision.