4 ms·

On the other hand, the prices French consumers pay DO include the price hikes that come with German renewable plants produce nothing, due to no wind in the wint

On the other hand, the prices French consumers pay DO include the price hikes that come with German renewable plants produce nothing, due to no wind in the winter. Also, France has significantly lower greenhouse gas emissions per capita than Germany, despite having a lot less renewable power. And for the costs of decommisioning, this report estimates that when that is included, the nuclear power generated by current plants have a levelized cost of between 0.059 euro and 0.083 euro per kWh. For future plants, the report claims costs between 0.076 and 0.117 euroes per kWh. The report states that this is high compared to alternatives, but if cheap Russian gas is taken away, it is probably cheaper than the alternatives (without gas, renewables must have a significant amount of storage added to their price to be viable as a 24/7 source, or one must return to super-dirty coal). https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0301421513011440 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S03014...

jillesvangurp 4y ago
Nuclear has a well deserved reputation for being very expensive. France is no exception. Most of their nuclear plants are old and getting more costly to keep running. That is for sure not being funded out of regular energy revenue. Also France is a majority share holder in EDF that runs the nuclear plants in France. So they get to do lots of creative bookkeeping. Wikipedia has some nice factoids on the French nuclear industry; including this one: "The actual cost of generating electricity by nuclear power is not published by EDF or the French government but is estimated to be between €59/MWh and €83/MWh". That would be much higher than what they charge. Here's another gem: "EDF remains heavily in debt. Its profitability suffered during the recession which began in 2008. It made €3.9 billion in 2009, which fell to €1.02 billion in 2010, with provisions set aside amounting to €2.9 billion.[citation needed] The Nuclear industry has been accused of significant cost overruns and failing to cover the total costs of operation, including waste management and decommissioning." They are having significant cost related to their ancient plants needing lots of downtime for maintenance and upgrades to keep them going beyond their retirement age. And then the new plants are not projected to be any better. I wonder who is paying for this.
- trashtester 4y ago
  > "The actual cost of generating electricity by nuclear power is not published by EDF or the French government but is estimated to be between €59/MWh and €83/MWh". This is precisely the cost I quoted in the comment you replied to. Also, it is compatible with the price French consumers are paying on average for electricity (even when excluding taxes, and taking transport costs into account): https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/paragraph_text_image/public/paragraphs/images/eurostat-average-electricity-price-households-2ndhalf-2018.jpg?itok=vbrZx8N1 https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/p... > I wonder who is paying for this. I suppose time will tell.
  - jillesvangurp 4y ago
    It's not the full cost though. That's just the operating cost.
    - trashtester 4y ago
      This is what the article says "We include R&D, technology development, fissile fuel, financing cost, decommissioning and the back-end cycle."
- trashtester 4y ago
  And here are the benefits of nuclear Much cleaner air than surrounding countries: https://airquality.one/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/europe-air-quality-per-country-2004-1024x772.gif https://airquality.one/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/europe-air... Resulting in thousands of lives saved every year from lower air polutions (that's one Chernobyl or more worth of lives SAVED every year, in France alone): https://assets.weforum.org/editor/e1rgwaEG5hxgxOvB6LAXfj23t1p5VwBhRz0GMSGSrO0.jpg https://assets.weforum.org/editor/e1rgwaEG5hxgxOvB6LAXfj23t1...

jillesvangurp 4y ago

Nuclear has a well deserved reputation for being very expensive. France is no exception. Most of their nuclear plants are old and getting more costly to keep running. That is for sure not being funded out of regular energy revenue. Also France is a majority share holder in EDF that runs the nuclear plants in France. So they get to do lots of creative bookkeeping. Wikipedia has some nice factoids on the French nuclear industry; including this one: "The actual cost of generating electricity by nuclear power is not published by EDF or the French government but is estimated to be between €59/MWh and €83/MWh". That would be much higher than what they charge. Here's another gem: "EDF remains heavily in debt. Its profitability suffered during the recession which began in 2008. It made €3.9 billion in 2009, which fell to €1.02 billion in 2010, with provisions set aside amounting to €2.9 billion.[citation needed] The Nuclear industry has been accused of significant cost overruns and failing to cover the total costs of operation, including waste management and decommissioning." They are having significant cost related to their ancient plants needing lots of downtime for maintenance and upgrades to keep them going beyond their retirement age. And then the new plants are not projected to be any better. I wonder who is paying for this.

trashtester 4y ago
> "The actual cost of generating electricity by nuclear power is not published by EDF or the French government but is estimated to be between €59/MWh and €83/MWh". This is precisely the cost I quoted in the comment you replied to. Also, it is compatible with the price French consumers are paying on average for electricity (even when excluding taxes, and taking transport costs into account): https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/paragraph_text_image/public/paragraphs/images/eurostat-average-electricity-price-households-2ndhalf-2018.jpg?itok=vbrZx8N1 https://www.cleanenergywire.org/sites/default/files/styles/p... > I wonder who is paying for this. I suppose time will tell.
- jillesvangurp 4y ago
  It's not the full cost though. That's just the operating cost.
  - trashtester 4y ago
    This is what the article says "We include R&D, technology development, fissile fuel, financing cost, decommissioning and the back-end cycle."
trashtester 4y ago
And here are the benefits of nuclear Much cleaner air than surrounding countries: https://airquality.one/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/europe-air-quality-per-country-2004-1024x772.gif https://airquality.one/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/europe-air... Resulting in thousands of lives saved every year from lower air polutions (that's one Chernobyl or more worth of lives SAVED every year, in France alone): https://assets.weforum.org/editor/e1rgwaEG5hxgxOvB6LAXfj23t1p5VwBhRz0GMSGSrO0.jpg https://assets.weforum.org/editor/e1rgwaEG5hxgxOvB6LAXfj23t1...