4 ms·

Devil's advocate: the only reason the product is so nice is because the grubby handed business types could raise the money by promising MRR to the investors. Re

Devil's advocate: the only reason the product is so nice is because the grubby handed business types could raise the money by promising MRR to the investors. Reverse devil's advocate: and this is why hacking is so essential, so that some of us get to have our cake (meticulously and expensively designed stuff) and eat it too (opt out of MRR). Although this does create a new kind of 1%, but its one based on merit so its okay?

Waterluvian 4y ago
I agree there's an argument to be made for the mechanics of capitalism to create such a product. I think it's still disgusting and shameful. I also think, as I think you're pointing out, we should be incredibly careful to appreciate that over 99% of customers won't have any awareness of, or capacity to hack the problem away.
jsymolon 4y ago
Interesting story on how it could go. Unauthorized Bread, Cory Doctorow https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/unauthorized-bread-a-near-future-tale-of-refugees-and-sinister-iot-appliances/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/unauthorized-bread-a-...
- Waterluvian 4y ago
  Hah great read. Reminds me of this copypasta: https://imgur.com/r/4chan/dgGvgKF https://imgur.com/r/4chan/dgGvgKF
- II2II 4y ago
  Unfortunately, some business people seem to be using his writing as a manual to create the future.
- javajosh 4y ago
  Wonderful. Love Doctorow, and this piece makes good points, even if it does veer into Black Mirror "contrived circumstances to maximize cruelty potential of new tech" territory. The key aspect of this story is that poor people are forced to use bad tech to secure housing. Doctorow captures the pathos of it, the resentful landlords getting back at "the poors" any way they can - this rings true. But at least in my world, it really is a matter of choosing a Brother laser printer instead of a shitty Epson color laserjet - and it's a $100 mistake if you pick wrong. Which is low stakes in my world. (of course one of the key elements of this story is "when worlds collide" and $100 is life-changing stakes for some)
piva00 4y ago
> the only reason the product is so nice is because the grubby handed business types could raise the money by promising MRR to the investors. Bingo! It's just the next layer of business types because they dominate this fucking system... Yes, it is the system: shameful.
- tinco 4y ago
  Did you see the price tag? This device is super cheap for what it is, same as inkjet printers are. It's easier to sell a $50 printer and recover your losses through ink, than it is to sell a $200 printer. You could solve the "system" by regulating that companies are not allowed to sell products at a loss, but that would be unamerican.
  - spiffytech 4y ago
    > You could solve the "system" by regulating that companies are not allowed to sell products at a loss, but that would be unamerican. To memory, Nintendo is the only console maker that turns a profit on the hardware (which is part of why their hardware specs are always outdated). Sony & Microsoft don't turn a profit until you buy ~3 games. I think people would be surprised at how often products are sold at a loss.
    - tinco 4y ago
      Definitely, this is also why the "this is unamerican" (meaning of course the argument is against free market) is not an unjustified argument. It is very likely that inkjet printers have become much better due to inkjet printer manufacturers being able to compete much better having such an effective marketing strategy. Buying these devices is effectively the same as taking out a small loan, that you're repaying by buying the games/cartridges, and it's a well known fact that loans leverage economies. I wonder if some day we'll have a less intrusive ways of establishing these micro loans to enable consumers access to excellent technology. Inkjet printers, this tiny dishwasher, the Sony Playstation 4, they're all incredible devices that people get through this scheme. It's not just that the price is spread out by the way, a consumer could easily achieve that by using a credit card, but also the consumer is shielded from a bit of risk. If that $50 inkjet printer turns out to be shit they can simply not buy any cartridges for it, and won't be out $200 bucks on it.
actionablefiber 4y ago
> Although this does create a new kind of 1%, but its one based on merit so its okay? I think about this a lot. There are so many ways that the people who can least afford to be fleeced are getting fleeced the most, while people with the right savvy and some spare time, who are more likely to be earning well, are also able to avoid a ton of unnecessary cost. It's kind of a double whammy on the poor and unskilled.
layer8 4y ago
There are a lot of similar mini dishwashers that don’t have that business model and use regular detergent. This is more like a lifestyle product, designed by a French startup rather than a Chinese manufacturer.
car_analogy 4y ago
> Devil's advocate: the only reason the product is so nice No - the only reason the up-front price is so low, while the hidden price is much higher. This is nothing more than technologically enhanced exploitation of information asymmetry and and human behavioral quirks that cause poor financial decisions.

Waterluvian 4y ago

I agree there's an argument to be made for the mechanics of capitalism to create such a product. I think it's still disgusting and shameful. I also think, as I think you're pointing out, we should be incredibly careful to appreciate that over 99% of customers won't have any awareness of, or capacity to hack the problem away.

jsymolon 4y ago

Interesting story on how it could go. Unauthorized Bread, Cory Doctorow https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/unauthorized-bread-a-near-future-tale-of-refugees-and-sinister-iot-appliances/ https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2020/01/unauthorized-bread-a-...

Waterluvian 4y ago
Hah great read. Reminds me of this copypasta: https://imgur.com/r/4chan/dgGvgKF https://imgur.com/r/4chan/dgGvgKF
II2II 4y ago
Unfortunately, some business people seem to be using his writing as a manual to create the future.
javajosh 4y ago
Wonderful. Love Doctorow, and this piece makes good points, even if it does veer into Black Mirror "contrived circumstances to maximize cruelty potential of new tech" territory. The key aspect of this story is that poor people are forced to use bad tech to secure housing. Doctorow captures the pathos of it, the resentful landlords getting back at "the poors" any way they can - this rings true. But at least in my world, it really is a matter of choosing a Brother laser printer instead of a shitty Epson color laserjet - and it's a $100 mistake if you pick wrong. Which is low stakes in my world. (of course one of the key elements of this story is "when worlds collide" and $100 is life-changing stakes for some)

piva00 4y ago

> the only reason the product is so nice is because the grubby handed business types could raise the money by promising MRR to the investors. Bingo! It's just the next layer of business types because they dominate this fucking system... Yes, it is the system: shameful.

tinco 4y ago
Did you see the price tag? This device is super cheap for what it is, same as inkjet printers are. It's easier to sell a $50 printer and recover your losses through ink, than it is to sell a $200 printer. You could solve the "system" by regulating that companies are not allowed to sell products at a loss, but that would be unamerican.
- spiffytech 4y ago
  > You could solve the "system" by regulating that companies are not allowed to sell products at a loss, but that would be unamerican. To memory, Nintendo is the only console maker that turns a profit on the hardware (which is part of why their hardware specs are always outdated). Sony & Microsoft don't turn a profit until you buy ~3 games. I think people would be surprised at how often products are sold at a loss.
  - tinco 4y ago
    Definitely, this is also why the "this is unamerican" (meaning of course the argument is against free market) is not an unjustified argument. It is very likely that inkjet printers have become much better due to inkjet printer manufacturers being able to compete much better having such an effective marketing strategy. Buying these devices is effectively the same as taking out a small loan, that you're repaying by buying the games/cartridges, and it's a well known fact that loans leverage economies. I wonder if some day we'll have a less intrusive ways of establishing these micro loans to enable consumers access to excellent technology. Inkjet printers, this tiny dishwasher, the Sony Playstation 4, they're all incredible devices that people get through this scheme. It's not just that the price is spread out by the way, a consumer could easily achieve that by using a credit card, but also the consumer is shielded from a bit of risk. If that $50 inkjet printer turns out to be shit they can simply not buy any cartridges for it, and won't be out $200 bucks on it.

actionablefiber 4y ago

> Although this does create a new kind of 1%, but its one based on merit so its okay? I think about this a lot. There are so many ways that the people who can least afford to be fleeced are getting fleeced the most, while people with the right savvy and some spare time, who are more likely to be earning well, are also able to avoid a ton of unnecessary cost. It's kind of a double whammy on the poor and unskilled.

layer8 4y ago

There are a lot of similar mini dishwashers that don’t have that business model and use regular detergent. This is more like a lifestyle product, designed by a French startup rather than a Chinese manufacturer.

car_analogy 4y ago

> Devil's advocate: the only reason the product is so nice No - the only reason the up-front price is so low, while the hidden price is much higher. This is nothing more than technologically enhanced exploitation of information asymmetry and and human behavioral quirks that cause poor financial decisions.