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>The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race. I'll take detergent DRM any day over being a medieval serf.

Fauntleroy 4y ago
Same. But capitalism's driving force, profit above all, is simply going to consume everything in the end.
- marcinzm 4y ago
  Growth above all else is in many ways humanities driving force.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    Nonsense, humans are no different than any other animals and survive best in equilibrium and always die out in cases of uncontrolled growth.
    - marcinzm 4y ago
      >Nonsense, humans are no different than any other animals and survive best in equilibrium and always die out in cases of uncontrolled growth. Yet left on their own they will uncontrollably grow like what happens with invasive species. Then they'll collapse. Repeat a few times and some type of equilibrium may happen for a while until something else breaks it. Animals have no magic "equilibrium" sense but rather the surviving ones have evolved to have an equilibrium with their environment. That doesn't even mean the animal changed genetically but rather that other animals (ie: the environment) did to provide competition.
      - guerrilla 4y ago
        > Animals have no magic "equilibrium" sense but rather the surviving ones have evolved to have an equilibrium with their environment. There's nothing magic about persistence balance in nature. It happens in millions of ecosystems.
paskozdilar 4y ago
If it was just detergent DRM, I'd probably agree with you.
- Semaphor 4y ago
  So which parts are bad enough that you’d prefer medieval serfdom?
  - paskozdilar 4y ago
    Noise pollution is my number one. There is simply no way to escape it living in the city, and there are no job opportunities for software engineers on the countryside (not that it's perfect on the countryside either - given all the motor-based tractors, chainsaws, lawnmowers, leafblowers...). I hate it and it's driving me crazy and all I want is peace and quiet, but apparently, that's too much to ask and I'm spoiled and it's all in my head and I should shut the fuck up and stop bothering the noisemakers. There are many others that I can't think of right now, I don't really keep a list.
    - throwaway09223 4y ago
      When I worked in San Francisco I lived in a quiet suburb a few miles from BART. I couldn't hear much of anything. In any event, nowadays it's extremely easy to get a full time remote gig and live in a truly remote location - especially factoring in lower cost of living. This doesn't seem like an actual problem. Actually, it seems like the industrial revolution has provided an idyllic outcome for people in your situation.
      - paskozdilar 4y ago
        That's a good point, and one I have considered many times. It has its tradeoffs. I suppose right now it's much more important for me to be close to humans and to learn and develop myself, so it's a necessity for me to be here. Once I get a good enough remote job I will definitely move somewhere far away from everything.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
It's not a dichotomy though. I've got a boring dishwasher which works fine and I'm not a medieval serf, so I get the benefits of the industrial revolution and the big scientific leap (or to use hipster phrasing, I've got a dishwasher robot) at the expense of money (a new dishwasher would be a week's worth of wages).
cjbgkagh 4y ago
It’s a prescient manifesto by Ted Kaczynski (an MKUltra’ed domestic terrorist). I often show it to friends who doubt that todays state of mass manipulation and over socialization could have been predicted. I highly recommend reading it. His killing people to get it published put me off reading it, but a friend recommended it so I relented. I found it a good read. I should point out that the consequence he was warning about was being made into a techno serf and that the danger was so great that it was worth abandoning technological comforts to prevent it.
- micromacrofoot 4y ago
  You’re seriously recommending the manifesto of an anarchist that lived in a cabin in the woods without running water and sent dozens of mail bombs to innocent people? Come on, you can’t find something to support your ideas that doesn’t help glorify random murders?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - cjbgkagh 4y ago
    I am recommending it. He is clearly a smart person. If it was the ravings of a lunatic I would not. He is not a random murderer, he was psychologically tortured by the government as part of MKUltra before he killed anyone.
    - UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
      You just need to get on with the times. To read somebody now, you must: A) Be sure that whatever they wrote you agree 100% with. B) That person must share your full worldview and must have a pristine moral reputation. Anything else is dangerous, wrong and frankly subversive so I dont mind if you get punished by violating these simple principles.
      - micromacrofoot 4y ago
whywhywhywhy 4y ago
You still are a serf, stop paying your taxes and see what happens.

Fauntleroy 4y ago

Same. But capitalism's driving force, profit above all, is simply going to consume everything in the end.

marcinzm 4y ago
Growth above all else is in many ways humanities driving force.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  Nonsense, humans are no different than any other animals and survive best in equilibrium and always die out in cases of uncontrolled growth.
  - marcinzm 4y ago
    >Nonsense, humans are no different than any other animals and survive best in equilibrium and always die out in cases of uncontrolled growth. Yet left on their own they will uncontrollably grow like what happens with invasive species. Then they'll collapse. Repeat a few times and some type of equilibrium may happen for a while until something else breaks it. Animals have no magic "equilibrium" sense but rather the surviving ones have evolved to have an equilibrium with their environment. That doesn't even mean the animal changed genetically but rather that other animals (ie: the environment) did to provide competition.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      > Animals have no magic "equilibrium" sense but rather the surviving ones have evolved to have an equilibrium with their environment. There's nothing magic about persistence balance in nature. It happens in millions of ecosystems.

paskozdilar 4y ago

If it was just detergent DRM, I'd probably agree with you.

Semaphor 4y ago
So which parts are bad enough that you’d prefer medieval serfdom?
- paskozdilar 4y ago
  Noise pollution is my number one. There is simply no way to escape it living in the city, and there are no job opportunities for software engineers on the countryside (not that it's perfect on the countryside either - given all the motor-based tractors, chainsaws, lawnmowers, leafblowers...). I hate it and it's driving me crazy and all I want is peace and quiet, but apparently, that's too much to ask and I'm spoiled and it's all in my head and I should shut the fuck up and stop bothering the noisemakers. There are many others that I can't think of right now, I don't really keep a list.
  - throwaway09223 4y ago
    When I worked in San Francisco I lived in a quiet suburb a few miles from BART. I couldn't hear much of anything. In any event, nowadays it's extremely easy to get a full time remote gig and live in a truly remote location - especially factoring in lower cost of living. This doesn't seem like an actual problem. Actually, it seems like the industrial revolution has provided an idyllic outcome for people in your situation.
    - paskozdilar 4y ago
      That's a good point, and one I have considered many times. It has its tradeoffs. I suppose right now it's much more important for me to be close to humans and to learn and develop myself, so it's a necessity for me to be here. Once I get a good enough remote job I will definitely move somewhere far away from everything.

Cthulhu_ 4y ago

It's not a dichotomy though. I've got a boring dishwasher which works fine and I'm not a medieval serf, so I get the benefits of the industrial revolution and the big scientific leap (or to use hipster phrasing, I've got a dishwasher robot) at the expense of money (a new dishwasher would be a week's worth of wages).

cjbgkagh 4y ago

It’s a prescient manifesto by Ted Kaczynski (an MKUltra’ed domestic terrorist). I often show it to friends who doubt that todays state of mass manipulation and over socialization could have been predicted. I highly recommend reading it. His killing people to get it published put me off reading it, but a friend recommended it so I relented. I found it a good read. I should point out that the consequence he was warning about was being made into a techno serf and that the danger was so great that it was worth abandoning technological comforts to prevent it.

micromacrofoot 4y ago
You’re seriously recommending the manifesto of an anarchist that lived in a cabin in the woods without running water and sent dozens of mail bombs to innocent people? Come on, you can’t find something to support your ideas that doesn’t help glorify random murders?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- cjbgkagh 4y ago
  I am recommending it. He is clearly a smart person. If it was the ravings of a lunatic I would not. He is not a random murderer, he was psychologically tortured by the government as part of MKUltra before he killed anyone.
  - UmbertoNoEco 4y ago
    You just need to get on with the times. To read somebody now, you must: A) Be sure that whatever they wrote you agree 100% with. B) That person must share your full worldview and must have a pristine moral reputation. Anything else is dangerous, wrong and frankly subversive so I dont mind if you get punished by violating these simple principles.
    - micromacrofoot 4y ago

whywhywhywhy 4y ago

You still are a serf, stop paying your taxes and see what happens.