4 ms·

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-emergencies/emergency-assistance-vehicles-ecall/index_en.htm#shortcut-3 https://europa.eu/youreurope/c

by frafra 4y ago

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-emergencies/emergency-assistance-vehicles-ecall/index_en.htm#shortcut-3 https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/travel/security-and-em... https://ec.europa.eu/justice/article-29/documentation/opinion-recommendation/files/2006/wp125_en.pdf https://ec.europa.eu/justice/article-29/documentation/opinio... https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/general-discussion/1035513-is-it-possible-to-disable-the-ecall-surveillance-system?p=1125873#post1125873 https://www.phoronix.com/forums/forum/phoronix/general-discu... It is mandatory to have it installed for new cars, but it looks like it can be disabled if the owner prefers to be left alone while dying, instead of calling an ambulance :D

xdennis 4y ago
> it can be disabled if the owner prefers to be left alone while dying, instead of calling an ambulance :D Nobody prefers to die. It's the part where it's capable of being active all the time that's worrying. You also can't control the mandatory microphone. How long until someone abuses that (if it hasn't happened already)?
- frafra 4y ago
  The device is built and tested according to some well-defined specifics; it is not connected to the network, and it is not capable of recording more than 3 positions and send them if an accident occurs, as well as establishing a phone call. Anything else is a violation perpetrated the manufacturer, as well as faking the specific tests that are formulated to check if the device is compliant: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32017R0079 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32... Abuses can always happen, and we should put reasonable checks in place to avoid them. Is the current regulation good enough to minimize the risk of having them? I hope so.
  - codedokode 4y ago
    Note that this applies only to eCall system. Any other system that might be installed in a car doesn't have to stick to these rules.
    - frafra 4y ago
      It would still need to respect EU privacy regulations (as any other instrument, of course), which include consent. Nobody is forcing you to be tracked.
    - tremon 4y ago
      Sure, but that "any other system" is not mandated by EU rules, which is what started this subthread.
chopin 4y ago
I have a new car and no, it can't be disabled. You can only disable tracking by the car company but not emergency calling. Via IMEI tracking the cell providers have your location data, willingly or not. If you want to travel anonymously you'd better have an oldtimer. I know of lawyers who only visit clients with an old car.
- frafra 4y ago
  As reported, installation of such device is mandatory (first link), but it does not need to be active. This is why some car manufacturers disable it upon request (see the third link). I mean, BMW and Porche disable that if requested. Devices that allow tracking when no accident occurred, violate the current regulation. This is stressed multiple times. "not connected to the mobile phone networks until a serious accident happens" -- https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 "it is not permanently connected to mobile networks" -- https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fr/MEMO_13_547 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fr/MEMO_1... "not connected to the mobile phone networks until a serious accident happens" -- https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 There is even a technical test to check if the device is compliant with the privacy regulations: "Procedure for verifying the lack of traceability of an eCall in-vehicle system", where the "Failure to establish the connection can be attributed to the 112-based eCall in-vehicle system not being registered on the network" -- https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32017R0079 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32... Registering the SIM on the network before an accident occurred could be considered a violation indeed.
  - codedokode 4y ago
    > Devices that allow tracking when no accident occurred, violate the current regulation. This is stressed multiple times. "not connected to the mobile phone networks until a serious accident happens" -- https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 Note that the linked document applies only to eCall In Vehicle System. Nothing prevent manufacturer to install a second system, using the same or separate modem, and track user's location and actions continuously. If the law requires you to install a GPS receiver and a modem, it would be uncapitalistic not to try to gain some profits from the data.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

by frafra 4y ago

xdennis 4y ago

> it can be disabled if the owner prefers to be left alone while dying, instead of calling an ambulance :D Nobody prefers to die. It's the part where it's capable of being active all the time that's worrying. You also can't control the mandatory microphone. How long until someone abuses that (if it hasn't happened already)?

frafra 4y ago
The device is built and tested according to some well-defined specifics; it is not connected to the network, and it is not capable of recording more than 3 positions and send them if an accident occurs, as well as establishing a phone call. Anything else is a violation perpetrated the manufacturer, as well as faking the specific tests that are formulated to check if the device is compliant: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32017R0079 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32... Abuses can always happen, and we should put reasonable checks in place to avoid them. Is the current regulation good enough to minimize the risk of having them? I hope so.
- codedokode 4y ago
  Note that this applies only to eCall system. Any other system that might be installed in a car doesn't have to stick to these rules.
  - frafra 4y ago
    It would still need to respect EU privacy regulations (as any other instrument, of course), which include consent. Nobody is forcing you to be tracked.
  - tremon 4y ago
    Sure, but that "any other system" is not mandated by EU rules, which is what started this subthread.

chopin 4y ago

I have a new car and no, it can't be disabled. You can only disable tracking by the car company but not emergency calling. Via IMEI tracking the cell providers have your location data, willingly or not. If you want to travel anonymously you'd better have an oldtimer. I know of lawyers who only visit clients with an old car.

frafra 4y ago
As reported, installation of such device is mandatory (first link), but it does not need to be active. This is why some car manufacturers disable it upon request (see the third link). I mean, BMW and Porche disable that if requested. Devices that allow tracking when no accident occurred, violate the current regulation. This is stressed multiple times. "not connected to the mobile phone networks until a serious accident happens" -- https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 "it is not permanently connected to mobile networks" -- https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fr/MEMO_13_547 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/fr/MEMO_1... "not connected to the mobile phone networks until a serious accident happens" -- https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 There is even a technical test to check if the device is compliant with the privacy regulations: "Procedure for verifying the lack of traceability of an eCall in-vehicle system", where the "Failure to establish the connection can be attributed to the 112-based eCall in-vehicle system not being registered on the network" -- https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32017R0079 https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=celex:32... Registering the SIM on the network before an accident occurred could be considered a violation indeed.
- codedokode 4y ago
  > Devices that allow tracking when no accident occurred, violate the current regulation. This is stressed multiple times. "not connected to the mobile phone networks until a serious accident happens" -- https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 https://ec.europa.eu/newsroom/dae/redirection/document/5963 Note that the linked document applies only to eCall In Vehicle System. Nothing prevent manufacturer to install a second system, using the same or separate modem, and track user's location and actions continuously. If the law requires you to install a GPS receiver and a modem, it would be uncapitalistic not to try to gain some profits from the data.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]