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Yes, I (CEO/Founder, DuckDuckGo) left a top-level comment responding to the article here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31557587 https://news.ycombinator

by yegg 4y ago

Yes, I (CEO/Founder, DuckDuckGo) left a top-level comment responding to the article here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31557587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31557587. Would suggest reading it for a fuller explanation. In short though, you're right it isn't about our search engine. It also isn't about 3rd-party cookies (another point of confusion I've seen), which our browsers block (including for 3rd-party Microsoft scripts). 3rd-party Microsoft scripts are also further restricted in our browsers with additional web protections, e.g., fingerprinting protection, Global Privacy Control, referrer header trimming, etc. What this article is talking about specifically is one web protection that the major browsers don't even attempt to do — stopping third-party tracking scripts from even loading on third-party websites. You can see that for yourself at the bottom 'tracker content blocking' section of this audit site: https://privacytests.org/ios.html https://privacytests.org/ios.html (scroll to the very bottom).

asddubs 4y ago
doesn't matter, IMO. Playing favorites is a bad look for a privacy focused company, and it lowers trust in your products across the board.
- LivingstonSea 4y ago
  Favorites? The answer is that this is a hard problem to solve and isn't just a Microsoft thing means it's not picking Favorites.
  - asddubs 4y ago
    I don't understand what you mean. They entered a contractual agreement that prevented them from applying tracking protections to microsoft properties in some situations. How is that not picking favorites?
- 2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
  Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. So far they are being transparent. If you were a DDG user, you should keep supporting them for now and see where it takes us. There aren’t many tech companies that are privacy focused. And so far I think it’s in our best interest that privacy first becomes mainstream.
  - philistine 4y ago
    They are not transparent. Show me where they indicated that their policies did not apply to Microsoft cookies before journalists highlighted the issue.
    - yegg 4y ago
      As said, this isn't about 3rd-party cookies, which our browsers block wholesale (including for 3rd-party Microsoft scripts). 3rd-party Microsoft scripts are also further restricted in our browsers with additional web protections, e.g., fingerprinting protection, Global Privacy Control, referrer header trimming, etc. What this article is talking about specifically is one web protection that the major browsers don't even attempt to do — stopping third-party tracking scripts from even loading on third-party websites. You can see that for yourself at the bottom 'tracker content blocking' section of this audit site: https://privacytests.org/ios.html https://privacytests.org/ios.html (scroll to the very bottom).
  - asddubs 4y ago
    IMO this is too big a misstep to play that card. if your support is too unconditional, you may end up with privacy theather instead of privacy. but we shall see what the future holds
- yegg 4y ago
  I understand why people are upset with us on this, and we will do better. I know we have to do a lot more to rebuild trust, and I also understand that will not happen overnight. Our goal remains though to provide the most privacy we can in one download. (For anyone wanting full context and a more detailed explanation, please see linked comment mentioned above -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31557587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31557587.
  - someotherperson 4y ago
    > I understand why people are upset with us on this, and we will do better. I know we have to do a lot more to rebuild trust, and I also understand that will not happen overnight. Our goal remains though to provide the most privacy we can in one download. I don't believe you actually understand why people are upset with this -- it shows in the replies. You also don't seem to understand your users. It appears that you're entirely convinced that others are just misunderstanding you and that's why they don't see the genius/cleverness/importance/validity --whatever, in the actions DDG has carried out over the last months. In all honesty, it feels like you're moving the company towards acquisition and looking for an exit.
- ordu 4y ago
  It does. Don't let the best to be an enemy of the good. World is not painted in black and white, it isn't even in shades of gray. Even colors of rainbow wouldn't be enough, because they can be mixed in the real world. Black and white is such an oversimplification, that it is surprising that there are cases when it works.

by yegg 4y ago

asddubs 4y ago

doesn't matter, IMO. Playing favorites is a bad look for a privacy focused company, and it lowers trust in your products across the board.

LivingstonSea 4y ago
Favorites? The answer is that this is a hard problem to solve and isn't just a Microsoft thing means it's not picking Favorites.
- asddubs 4y ago
  I don't understand what you mean. They entered a contractual agreement that prevented them from applying tracking protections to microsoft properties in some situations. How is that not picking favorites?
2muchcoffeeman 4y ago
Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good. So far they are being transparent. If you were a DDG user, you should keep supporting them for now and see where it takes us. There aren’t many tech companies that are privacy focused. And so far I think it’s in our best interest that privacy first becomes mainstream.
- philistine 4y ago
  They are not transparent. Show me where they indicated that their policies did not apply to Microsoft cookies before journalists highlighted the issue.
  - yegg 4y ago
    As said, this isn't about 3rd-party cookies, which our browsers block wholesale (including for 3rd-party Microsoft scripts). 3rd-party Microsoft scripts are also further restricted in our browsers with additional web protections, e.g., fingerprinting protection, Global Privacy Control, referrer header trimming, etc. What this article is talking about specifically is one web protection that the major browsers don't even attempt to do — stopping third-party tracking scripts from even loading on third-party websites. You can see that for yourself at the bottom 'tracker content blocking' section of this audit site: https://privacytests.org/ios.html https://privacytests.org/ios.html (scroll to the very bottom).
- asddubs 4y ago
  IMO this is too big a misstep to play that card. if your support is too unconditional, you may end up with privacy theather instead of privacy. but we shall see what the future holds
yegg 4y ago
I understand why people are upset with us on this, and we will do better. I know we have to do a lot more to rebuild trust, and I also understand that will not happen overnight. Our goal remains though to provide the most privacy we can in one download. (For anyone wanting full context and a more detailed explanation, please see linked comment mentioned above -- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31557587 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31557587.
- someotherperson 4y ago
  > I understand why people are upset with us on this, and we will do better. I know we have to do a lot more to rebuild trust, and I also understand that will not happen overnight. Our goal remains though to provide the most privacy we can in one download. I don't believe you actually understand why people are upset with this -- it shows in the replies. You also don't seem to understand your users. It appears that you're entirely convinced that others are just misunderstanding you and that's why they don't see the genius/cleverness/importance/validity --whatever, in the actions DDG has carried out over the last months. In all honesty, it feels like you're moving the company towards acquisition and looking for an exit.
ordu 4y ago
It does. Don't let the best to be an enemy of the good. World is not painted in black and white, it isn't even in shades of gray. Even colors of rainbow wouldn't be enough, because they can be mixed in the real world. Black and white is such an oversimplification, that it is surprising that there are cases when it works.