6 ms·

The drowsiness detection isn't a kill switch, but the camera version of it is beyond creepy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection https://

by blqrt 4y ago

The drowsiness detection isn't a kill switch, but the camera version of it is beyond creepy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driver_drowsiness_detection Cars used to be a safe space where one could get away from being monitored and listened to by other people. This is no longer the case. I wonder why people accept it. Does it appeal to the narcissism, i.e., people like to be monitored at all times because it makes them feel important?

mardifoufs 4y ago
The european regulation discusses using cameras too! IIRC the manufacturers have a certain detection percentage threshold to achieve and they have commented that they will require stuff like visual muscle twitching detection, eye tracking, head tilt evaluation and even heartbeat sensors etc.
philistine 4y ago
Cars are a health crisis. So many people have died needlessly due to cars that it’s easy to understand Europe’s drive to make them safer.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  But road safety has only increased in terms of accidents per km driven. There's just too many cars on the road now. I think we should push for full self driving asap though. Taking the driver out of the equation means no longer stuffing cars wth systems intended to second-guess the driver and their abilities. No more need to check for mobile phone use because the occupants are free to do what they want. No more need for speed cameras or distance between cars. More efficiency due to people not constantly overtaking because they're in a hurry. Right now it's becoming this insane situation where a driver is not trusted at all and second-guessed at every corner. I don't own a car anymore and I hope I will never need one again. I don't want to drive like this, constantly being looked over my shoulder. It's not worth that hassle.
  - ClumsyPilot 4y ago
    > Right now it's becoming this insane situation where a driver is not trusted at all and second-guessed at every corner. Well a self driving car will give you no control over where you are going at all, i am not sure thats better from the point of view of liberty.
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      Yes but you no longer have the burden of control and responsibility. That's a huge difference. Personally I hate driving so I'd be really happy if I could just read a book, surf the web or watch a movie while travelling. For me driving is pure wasted time. I know some people actually enjoy driving :) But for me it feels this way.
      - donw 4y ago
        > Yes but you no longer have the burden of control and responsibility. Sounds like slavery with extra marketing.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  deaths on the roads have been declining year on year. there is no crisis except fake ones driven by politicians
  - rndgermandude 4y ago
    Sure, they have been declining overall[0]. But here in Germany, we still have 2.3M traffic accidents, 321K injuries and 2654 fatalities[1]. While I'd agree that 2.6K fatalities per year for 83M population doesn't reach the level of crisis (but 321K injuries, even if many will be minor ones, to me sound crisis-adjacent at least), still a lot of these accidents and injuries and deaths could be avoided with tech we have today. That said, the "drowsiness" cameras in particular seem problematic, while the rear-view cameras for reversing/parking seem not problematic[2]. [0] The 2022 numbers compared to 2021 saw quite an increase, in Germany at least[1], tho. I'd guess it might have a lot to do with people "going outside" again a lot more, including fewer people still being in full-time home office and thus needing to commute again. [1] https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Traffic-Accidents/_node.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Traffi... [2] Anecdote: my mom recently narrowly avoided running into/running over a kid crawling on the street when she was reversing out of a parking spot, thanks to the rear-camera and sensors which immediately sounded alarms; she'd not have had a chance to see the kid in time without that according to her. While she was going very slow and chances are it wouldn't have been a life-threatening injury, it would have been some injury regardless with a lot more stress and trauma for everybody involved, the kid, her, the kid's parents.
  - codingdave 4y ago
    Deaths on the roads have been declining because of the years of focus on safety improvements. Those numbers show that these efforts are working. We should certainly keep an eye on the features and have productive dialogue about it. But denying safety concerns seems to be a fairly egregious twisting of the facts.
    - ekianjo 4y ago
      > because of the years of focus on safety improvements. dont be too hasty to jump from correlation to causation. the numbers were declining before politicians did anything about road safety.
Cicero22 4y ago
I wonder why people accept it. Does it appeal to the narcissism, i.e., people like to be monitored at all times because it makes them feel important? I think it's pretty much like boiling a frog. The trend will continue, and people will have less and less privacy. At this point the marginal benefit of privacy in a car doesn't matter to most people, as saddening as that is.
goodpoint 4y ago
> Cars used to be a safe space where one could get away from being monitored and listened to by other people. This is no longer the case Now it's the complete opposite. You have way better privacy on an feet or a train.
illiac786 4y ago
>Cars used to be a safe space I think you should specify "safe from digital tracking" because cars are everything but safe, they cause thousands of injuries and hundreds of deaths each year in my country for example. And I'm not even counting the deaths and sicknesses due to car pollution. I profoundly dislike cars and hope for a future where car ownership will be a thing of the past and there will be only self driving cabs / buses / cargo bikes, hopefully all electric, ideally hydrogen powered. I know, I know, I'm dreamin' =)

by blqrt 4y ago

mardifoufs 4y ago

The european regulation discusses using cameras too! IIRC the manufacturers have a certain detection percentage threshold to achieve and they have commented that they will require stuff like visual muscle twitching detection, eye tracking, head tilt evaluation and even heartbeat sensors etc.

philistine 4y ago

Cars are a health crisis. So many people have died needlessly due to cars that it’s easy to understand Europe’s drive to make them safer.

GekkePrutser 4y ago
But road safety has only increased in terms of accidents per km driven. There's just too many cars on the road now. I think we should push for full self driving asap though. Taking the driver out of the equation means no longer stuffing cars wth systems intended to second-guess the driver and their abilities. No more need to check for mobile phone use because the occupants are free to do what they want. No more need for speed cameras or distance between cars. More efficiency due to people not constantly overtaking because they're in a hurry. Right now it's becoming this insane situation where a driver is not trusted at all and second-guessed at every corner. I don't own a car anymore and I hope I will never need one again. I don't want to drive like this, constantly being looked over my shoulder. It's not worth that hassle.
- ClumsyPilot 4y ago
  > Right now it's becoming this insane situation where a driver is not trusted at all and second-guessed at every corner. Well a self driving car will give you no control over where you are going at all, i am not sure thats better from the point of view of liberty.
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    Yes but you no longer have the burden of control and responsibility. That's a huge difference. Personally I hate driving so I'd be really happy if I could just read a book, surf the web or watch a movie while travelling. For me driving is pure wasted time. I know some people actually enjoy driving :) But for me it feels this way.
    - donw 4y ago
      > Yes but you no longer have the burden of control and responsibility. Sounds like slavery with extra marketing.
ekianjo 4y ago
deaths on the roads have been declining year on year. there is no crisis except fake ones driven by politicians
- rndgermandude 4y ago
  Sure, they have been declining overall[0]. But here in Germany, we still have 2.3M traffic accidents, 321K injuries and 2654 fatalities[1]. While I'd agree that 2.6K fatalities per year for 83M population doesn't reach the level of crisis (but 321K injuries, even if many will be minor ones, to me sound crisis-adjacent at least), still a lot of these accidents and injuries and deaths could be avoided with tech we have today. That said, the "drowsiness" cameras in particular seem problematic, while the rear-view cameras for reversing/parking seem not problematic[2]. [0] The 2022 numbers compared to 2021 saw quite an increase, in Germany at least[1], tho. I'd guess it might have a lot to do with people "going outside" again a lot more, including fewer people still being in full-time home office and thus needing to commute again. [1] https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Traffic-Accidents/_node.html https://www.destatis.de/EN/Themes/Society-Environment/Traffi... [2] Anecdote: my mom recently narrowly avoided running into/running over a kid crawling on the street when she was reversing out of a parking spot, thanks to the rear-camera and sensors which immediately sounded alarms; she'd not have had a chance to see the kid in time without that according to her. While she was going very slow and chances are it wouldn't have been a life-threatening injury, it would have been some injury regardless with a lot more stress and trauma for everybody involved, the kid, her, the kid's parents.
- codingdave 4y ago
  Deaths on the roads have been declining because of the years of focus on safety improvements. Those numbers show that these efforts are working. We should certainly keep an eye on the features and have productive dialogue about it. But denying safety concerns seems to be a fairly egregious twisting of the facts.
  - ekianjo 4y ago
    > because of the years of focus on safety improvements. dont be too hasty to jump from correlation to causation. the numbers were declining before politicians did anything about road safety.

Cicero22 4y ago

I wonder why people accept it. Does it appeal to the narcissism, i.e., people like to be monitored at all times because it makes them feel important? I think it's pretty much like boiling a frog. The trend will continue, and people will have less and less privacy. At this point the marginal benefit of privacy in a car doesn't matter to most people, as saddening as that is.

goodpoint 4y ago

> Cars used to be a safe space where one could get away from being monitored and listened to by other people. This is no longer the case Now it's the complete opposite. You have way better privacy on an feet or a train.

illiac786 4y ago

>Cars used to be a safe space I think you should specify "safe from digital tracking" because cars are everything but safe, they cause thousands of injuries and hundreds of deaths each year in my country for example. And I'm not even counting the deaths and sicknesses due to car pollution. I profoundly dislike cars and hope for a future where car ownership will be a thing of the past and there will be only self driving cabs / buses / cargo bikes, hopefully all electric, ideally hydrogen powered. I know, I know, I'm dreamin' =)