5 ms·

Could custom Faraday cages be integrated?

by lwhi 4y ago

the_pwner224 4y ago
Afaik, on pretty much every modern car the single main antenna unit (usually the shark fin on the roof) handles cellular and GPS (Rx only) and radio (AM/FM, and often also weather/traffic, Rx only). So you'll lose the other things if you put it in a Faraday cage. A cage is a bad way to do it anyway. It's easier to disconnect the cable between the antenna & the telematics module (which has the SIM and control electronics in it). Or disconnect the power to the telematics module. Etc. Depending on the wiring harness style and design of the car's electronics, that may also let you disconnect just the cellular antenna while leaving the GPS/radio antennas connected. In the future we might see those components getting integrated together... But you can always physically destroy/remove the antenna.
- jhoechtl 4y ago
  > But you can always physically destroy/remove the antenna Unless the device itself becomes the antenna or is reacting passively as is the case in RFID.
  - the_pwner224 4y ago
    That's already happening :) If you have an automatic toll transponder (ez-pasz, etc.), those things are read very frequently even when you're not going through a toll meter. There's info on this online. TPMS sensors also transmit a serial number. I wouldn't put it past the NSA to have sensors embedded in certain roads to track that. And of course, dragnet automatic license plate scanning / tracking is already ubiquitous and there's really not anything you can do about it. Use a bicycle instead, I guess...
    - GekkePrutser 4y ago
      My Irish one wasn't. It beeps when it's being read and it was only read at toll ports.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
        I mean, what if it only beeps when it's being read and the reader doesn't mind you knowing about it? Not that it's necessarily happening but I don't see how that would be impossible.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dsr_ 4y ago
Sitting next to an internal combustion engine in a mostly-metal box is already pretty noisy as RF environments go. It's much easier to find and disable the antenna than to try to shield it off.
dlsa 4y ago
Its all very interesting as an idea. But in reality when things go fully tracked you'll be fined for not having location data for every trip. It will impact insurance. Your registration. Even basic road usage. People have this idea right now that public roads will always stay free. This is not guaranteed. Even the coming road taxes are all about constant tracking. How far / which road did you drive? They'll demand the answer. And you put a faraday cage to stop this? Suspicious. The default assumption is going to be fraud. Criminal behavior. All the EVs will soon enough have some variety of tracking sooner or later. So thats basically all new vehicles. The alternatives will also, whatever they are. Hydrogen? Transport privacy is likely dead already.
- BenjiWiebe 4y ago
  Well maybe the auto manufacturers will push the cell carriers to finally have service everywhere then... That'd be nice.

Could custom Faraday cages be integrated?

by lwhi 4y ago

Could custom Faraday cages be integrated?

Afaik, on pretty much every modern car the single main antenna unit (usually the shark fin on the roof) handles cellular and GPS (Rx only) and radio (AM/FM, and often also weather/traffic, Rx only). So you'll lose the other things if you put it in a Faraday cage. A cage is a bad way to do it anyway. It's easier to disconnect the cable between the antenna & the telematics module (which has the SIM and control electronics in it). Or disconnect the power to the telematics module. Etc. Depending on the wiring harness style and design of the car's electronics, that may also let you disconnect just the cellular antenna while leaving the GPS/radio antennas connected. In the future we might see those components getting integrated together... But you can always physically destroy/remove the antenna.

jhoechtl 4y ago
> But you can always physically destroy/remove the antenna Unless the device itself becomes the antenna or is reacting passively as is the case in RFID.
- the_pwner224 4y ago
  That's already happening :) If you have an automatic toll transponder (ez-pasz, etc.), those things are read very frequently even when you're not going through a toll meter. There's info on this online. TPMS sensors also transmit a serial number. I wouldn't put it past the NSA to have sensors embedded in certain roads to track that. And of course, dragnet automatic license plate scanning / tracking is already ubiquitous and there's really not anything you can do about it. Use a bicycle instead, I guess...
  - GekkePrutser 4y ago
    My Irish one wasn't. It beeps when it's being read and it was only read at toll ports.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 4y ago
      I mean, what if it only beeps when it's being read and the reader doesn't mind you knowing about it? Not that it's necessarily happening but I don't see how that would be impossible.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dsr_ 4y ago

Sitting next to an internal combustion engine in a mostly-metal box is already pretty noisy as RF environments go. It's much easier to find and disable the antenna than to try to shield it off.

dlsa 4y ago

Its all very interesting as an idea. But in reality when things go fully tracked you'll be fined for not having location data for every trip. It will impact insurance. Your registration. Even basic road usage. People have this idea right now that public roads will always stay free. This is not guaranteed. Even the coming road taxes are all about constant tracking. How far / which road did you drive? They'll demand the answer. And you put a faraday cage to stop this? Suspicious. The default assumption is going to be fraud. Criminal behavior. All the EVs will soon enough have some variety of tracking sooner or later. So thats basically all new vehicles. The alternatives will also, whatever they are. Hydrogen? Transport privacy is likely dead already.

BenjiWiebe 4y ago
Well maybe the auto manufacturers will push the cell carriers to finally have service everywhere then... That'd be nice.