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What is the rationale behind having apps built on/with technologies like KDE, Gnome etc. prefix their names with K or G etc? Why KTrip instead of Trip? Is it ju

What is the rationale behind having apps built on/with technologies like KDE, Gnome etc. prefix their names with K or G etc? Why KTrip instead of Trip? Is it just a historical artifact of development, or is there another reason?

sergiomattei 4y ago
KDE's app names have historically been difficult to relate. Their file manager is called "Dolphin", PDF viewer "Okular" and the app store "Discover".
- Jedd 4y ago
  I am slowly coming to terms with Dolphin, some decades on -- took me a long time to move past Konqueror (also not very intuitive in terms of name->functionality I guess). I'd suggest that the disconnect between name and function might not be a KDE peculiarity, given the GNOME equivalents of those two applications are / were Nautilus & Evince. OTOH I don't think discoverability for products in GNU/Linux distros commonly comes down to trying to intuit semantics of the product's name.
  - sergiomattei 4y ago
    > Nautilus & Evince The difference is the UI usually names these appropriately in GNOME. You won't really read the brand Nautilus in the UI anywhere - it'll be called "Files", which makes much more sense to the reader. > OTOH I don't think discoverability for products in GNU/Linux distros commonly comes down to trying to intuit semantics of the product's name. I recall watching a video from Linus Tech Tips where he tries switching to Linux for the first time [0]. A big point in the video is that he tried KDE and had big problems figuring which apps to use because they're not named intuitively. If tech people are getting tripped up over these names, I can't imagine an average user trying out KDE. [0] https://openforeveryone.net/articles/kde-fixing-every-ltt-complaint-plasma-ark/ https://openforeveryone.net/articles/kde-fixing-every-ltt-co...
    - yakubin 4y ago
      On the other hand, I can't imagine an average user finding anything useful in Google after searching for "linux files crashed". And then when communicating with fellow humans: - Files has a nice UI - Huh? Or worse: "Web is ugly". Your local bakery probably also doesn't call itself just "bakery". And you (figuratively) use Java and C#, not "Oracle Programming Language" and "Microsoft Programming Language".
      - usrn 4y ago
        Yes. You name things so you can communicate ideas about them.
    - Jedd 4y ago
      The nipple's intuitive, everything subsequent is learned. KDE has (or at least had, I can't find the setting now) the option to toggle between showing menu items by function/description (eg 'file manager') or name (eg 'dolphin'). I set it to the latter years ago, but the default was the former. KDE (contemporary) from the Launcher (start menu) you can start typing in 'file' and it'll bring 'Dolphin' to the top with the description 'file manager'. Obviously Alt-F1 or clicking on the K button bottom left in a default setup isn't genetically intuitive, but I'd suggest that it's as close as we can get in 2022. Anyway, this isn't really the point, I suspect.
    - dTal 4y ago
      The flip side of this is that it's very annoying to not know the executable names on GNOME, because the UI doesn't train you. What if I want to launch one from the command line? What if I want to force kill something? Or, heaven forbid, search on Google for help? It's all very well creating a fairy land where nobody needs to know the real names of things, but sooner or later the veil must be pierced.
Gigachad 4y ago
Google did this for a while with G before just using the full company name as a prefix.
Jedd 4y ago
I like it, especially when it's incorporated rather than just prefixed (eg. ark, kalzium, kamera, konsole, yakuake) for a couple of reasons. First it gives a unique name that you can search the web for. Looking for a solution involving an application called 'trip'? Well good luck with that. Second it provides some brand grouping. I haven't ever piped apt-cache search through a grep for 'k', but the name can give me a quick hint if it's a KDE-native application. Third, it's a combination of lazy and rude to call your app a common Word, especially when someone in one of your Teams at the Office is trying to Access the web to find information about it. Some companies are especially awful about squatting on these common words -- everyone else then has to qualify their terms forever. Of course it's intentional hijacking of the vernacular, which makes it more annoying.
dTal 4y ago
Well, if you're a user of said desktop environment, it's a useful signal that the program will at least attempt to fit in with the look and feel, may possibly integrate better, and can be expected to use less RAM because it uses components you've already loaded.

sergiomattei 4y ago

KDE's app names have historically been difficult to relate. Their file manager is called "Dolphin", PDF viewer "Okular" and the app store "Discover".

Jedd 4y ago
I am slowly coming to terms with Dolphin, some decades on -- took me a long time to move past Konqueror (also not very intuitive in terms of name->functionality I guess). I'd suggest that the disconnect between name and function might not be a KDE peculiarity, given the GNOME equivalents of those two applications are / were Nautilus & Evince. OTOH I don't think discoverability for products in GNU/Linux distros commonly comes down to trying to intuit semantics of the product's name.
- sergiomattei 4y ago
  > Nautilus & Evince The difference is the UI usually names these appropriately in GNOME. You won't really read the brand Nautilus in the UI anywhere - it'll be called "Files", which makes much more sense to the reader. > OTOH I don't think discoverability for products in GNU/Linux distros commonly comes down to trying to intuit semantics of the product's name. I recall watching a video from Linus Tech Tips where he tries switching to Linux for the first time [0]. A big point in the video is that he tried KDE and had big problems figuring which apps to use because they're not named intuitively. If tech people are getting tripped up over these names, I can't imagine an average user trying out KDE. [0] https://openforeveryone.net/articles/kde-fixing-every-ltt-complaint-plasma-ark/ https://openforeveryone.net/articles/kde-fixing-every-ltt-co...
  - yakubin 4y ago
    On the other hand, I can't imagine an average user finding anything useful in Google after searching for "linux files crashed". And then when communicating with fellow humans: - Files has a nice UI - Huh? Or worse: "Web is ugly". Your local bakery probably also doesn't call itself just "bakery". And you (figuratively) use Java and C#, not "Oracle Programming Language" and "Microsoft Programming Language".
    - usrn 4y ago
      Yes. You name things so you can communicate ideas about them.
  - Jedd 4y ago
    The nipple's intuitive, everything subsequent is learned. KDE has (or at least had, I can't find the setting now) the option to toggle between showing menu items by function/description (eg 'file manager') or name (eg 'dolphin'). I set it to the latter years ago, but the default was the former. KDE (contemporary) from the Launcher (start menu) you can start typing in 'file' and it'll bring 'Dolphin' to the top with the description 'file manager'. Obviously Alt-F1 or clicking on the K button bottom left in a default setup isn't genetically intuitive, but I'd suggest that it's as close as we can get in 2022. Anyway, this isn't really the point, I suspect.
  - dTal 4y ago
    The flip side of this is that it's very annoying to not know the executable names on GNOME, because the UI doesn't train you. What if I want to launch one from the command line? What if I want to force kill something? Or, heaven forbid, search on Google for help? It's all very well creating a fairy land where nobody needs to know the real names of things, but sooner or later the veil must be pierced.

Gigachad 4y ago

Google did this for a while with G before just using the full company name as a prefix.

Jedd 4y ago

I like it, especially when it's incorporated rather than just prefixed (eg. ark, kalzium, kamera, konsole, yakuake) for a couple of reasons. First it gives a unique name that you can search the web for. Looking for a solution involving an application called 'trip'? Well good luck with that. Second it provides some brand grouping. I haven't ever piped apt-cache search through a grep for 'k', but the name can give me a quick hint if it's a KDE-native application. Third, it's a combination of lazy and rude to call your app a common Word, especially when someone in one of your Teams at the Office is trying to Access the web to find information about it. Some companies are especially awful about squatting on these common words -- everyone else then has to qualify their terms forever. Of course it's intentional hijacking of the vernacular, which makes it more annoying.

dTal 4y ago

Well, if you're a user of said desktop environment, it's a useful signal that the program will at least attempt to fit in with the look and feel, may possibly integrate better, and can be expected to use less RAM because it uses components you've already loaded.