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UI Hell: The place I'm renting has an IKEA / Whirlpool ceramic top stove. All digital. And I HATE it. You can't find the touch-buttons in the dark, say when yo

by kebman 4y ago

UI Hell: The place I'm renting has an IKEA / Whirlpool ceramic top stove. All digital. And I HATE it. You can't find the touch-buttons in the dark, say when you want to make coffee in the wee morn, so you're forced to turn on lights. When you finally find a button, it takes forever to turn it to max. You have to fiddle around to turn it back down again, first click the button for the corresponding plate you want, then click a separate button to actually power it down. Again, it takes forever. It's also impossible to train tactile memory for it, becuase the buttons are too close and too hard to discern on the dark-on-dark top, so if you try doing it blind, you'll just end up fiddling forever to find the damn thing. If you spill something over the touch area, it'll start beeping and complaining before it turns itself off. Meanwhile the corresponding pot might have already boiled over, and you can't react in time, because the touch panel is covered in boiling liquid. Also, honestly, I think it's actually harder to keep the ceramic top clean than a regular top. Reason: It smudges real easy, and you're never sure how much pressure or abrasives you can use without making scratches. On the old tops, you just didn't have to worry. It could withstand a sledgehammer amount of abuse before scratching or chipping. And don't even get me started on the microwave installed here... I brought my own two-knob micro despite there already being one installed here. That should give you a clue.

bajsejohannes 4y ago
It's telling that no professional stoves have capacitive buttons.
- maccard 4y ago
  Just because something isnt used by professionals doesn't make it unsuitable for domestic use. I don't have a roll cage in my car, for example. That said capacitive touch has no place in the kitchen.
  - chrlac 4y ago
    I'm not sure the example you provide really applies to the situation. Roll cages are mandatory in race cars, so effectively the contrary to "isn't used by professionals" . Also, they can be used in normal road cars. Granted, they're inconvenient but still provide added safety. An example that comes to mind is Continuously Variable Transmissions (CVT). Most types of motorsports avoid CVTs for reasons of weight, unreliability and decreased repairability. However, for normal road cars, CVTs are very widespread and they do the job just fine (until they don't, but that's another story!)
    - maccard 4y ago
      It's an analogy - it doesn't need to be a 100% perfect to be appropriate.
thorin 4y ago
Is this the only way they can make sure they break down frequently enough to force you to buy a new device every few years rather than building something that would normally last a generation. Also I guess they might save a couple of pounds in controls. I found a good local appliance repair guy recently (could probably do it myself, but I'm not good at that sort of thing). I intend to try and repair anything from now on rather than buy new.
logifail 4y ago
> it'll start beeping Speaking of beeping, why is it so hard to completely disable the "I'm finished" beep on household devices? My microwave beeps, incessantly. My dishwasher beeps, four times, when it's finished. Especially nice when this happens after midnight when everyone is sleeping. My washing machine beeps, for the best part of 10 mins, when it's finished. Also nice when this happens in the wee small hours. My tumble dryer - praise the Lord - has a function to disable its beeping. The beeping got disabled within minutes of it being installed.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  And the funny thing is how some people will be insistent they like the beeping! (usually the same ones with the memory span of a goldfish but I digres...) Of course, the best way is to make it configurable, but surely.
- hansoolo 4y ago
  >My washing machine beeps, for the best part of 10 mins, when it's finished. Also nice when this happens in the wee small hours. Hmmm? So it annoys you if it beeps at those times, but not when it RUNS at those times? I'm confused...
  - logifail 4y ago
    > So it annoys you if it beeps at those times, but not when it RUNS at those times? I'm confused... Utility room is a long way from the bedroom, and the utility room door fits well. As long as you don't select a high-speed spin cycle the washing machine is more or less inaudible from the bedroom. The beeper, however, isn't inaudible, especially at night. Great design choice to make the beeper the loudest part of the device ... and then make it unmuteable. Yes, we did once ask the Siemens repair guy during a service visit.
  - kebman 4y ago
    I have some friends that need white noise to sleep, and the sound of appliances gives them some of the same feel. Until it beeps. Then they clench their teeth and aggressively finds the nearest pillow to press down over their ears.
alpaca128 4y ago
Mine has a lock button for some reason, and of course it is the closest button to the hot area. Meaning if I slide a pan a bit too far to the front it'll cover & trigger the lock button because it's capacitive and now I can't use or even turn off the stove for a while unless I press on the now boiling hot lock button. This should be illegal.
albertgoeswoof 4y ago
I had an ikea induction hob with a similar UI, moved house and now I have a full size gas rangemaster with 5 rings. I really miss the induction hob. Cleaning the rangemaster is a complete nightmare, it’s full of places where dirt can accumulate, there’s even holes down the back and gaps in the side where food falls down that are unrecoverable. The gas rings sometimes don’t light up and gas leaks out while you’re cooking and don’t realise, it’s much more dangerous for children and I’ve left it on without realising a few times now. The buttons on the induction hob sucked, yes, but the user experience was so much better, literally wipe clean and done, safe and powerful. Maybe if I had a cleaner I’d prefer the rangemaster…
- maccard 4y ago
  Completely agree here that the entire experience was better despite the buttons. If I could choose, I would have an induction burner with front mounted dials for controls.
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  Why not both? Induction stove with knobs.
- kebman 4y ago
  I've only used gas stoves in Romania. I rather enjoyed it, and it heats up stuff much faster than regular electric stovetops. (Barring the induction tops ofc; I haven't owned one of those yet.) I guess it depends on the design, because I didn't find it hard to clean at all. Sadly I don't remember the brand. As for Norway, where I'm from, gas stoves are only a very rare exception as by far most homes use electric appliances, save for campers. As for most things, the UI really counts. With that said, I think it's harder to f up a really established design paradigm, such as those with old fashioned electric stovetops.
reuben364 4y ago
I have a combination microwave/conventional oven with capacitive buttons as well as a dial for temperature. You can only use the buttons to adjust the timing for the microwave in 10-second increments, leaving the dial completely unused in that modality.
bjackman 4y ago
Have you tried selecting a ring and then holding the "reduce power" button for a moment? I've found on some units this is a faster way to get to full power. And I had one where holding the up and down buttons together skips the selected ring straight to zero. Delighted that my new place just has knobs!
- hyperdimension 4y ago
  So in your case, holding 'reduce power' then actually raises the power to the maximum?! It's like an additional slap in the face.
  - bjackman 4y ago
    Only when it's on 0. It "wraps around" (but if you go down from one, you need to release and touch again for this to happen).
NonNefarious 4y ago
My parents just got one of these POSes. What a UI fiasco. And my mom is afraid to let anything drip on it, because they told her she needs special cleaner or it'll ruin the finish. And my parents are not gullible people. Look forward to more of this shit, too: CA just outlawed gas appliances in new houses. But in an area stricken by permanent drought, do they do something sensible like requiring greywater recovery systems in new construction? NOPE.
licebmi__at__ 4y ago
I had a similar problem. A quick hack; try to put some small 3d stickers on it. At least on mine, they don’t register as input and leave enough space to use the button.
FridayoLeary 4y ago
Reminds me of this quote from the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy >The only profitable division of the company is its Complaints Department, which, according to the series, takes up the major landmasses on three planets. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines its marketing division as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes," and an edition of the Encyclopedia Galactica that had the good fortune to fall through a time warp from a thousand years in the future defines the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who were the first against the wall when the revolution came."
daveoc64 4y ago
Capacitive touch buttons for electric/ceramic/induction hobs have been very common in the UK for the last 20 years. Like fan (convection) ovens, is this just something that Europe is used to and is alien to people in the USA? Personally, I love that the entire surface of the hob (including buttons) is a flat piece of glass. It makes cleaning trivial.
- yason 4y ago
  To boil a kettle of water before and after: Before: turn the knob to max and wait a moment. Today: long-press the on/off button to turn the stove top on, press another button to select plate, adjust power by hitting the plus button ten times to get it to the max setting. Then wait a moment. That's the worst damn user interface you can think of for using a physical machine that begs for tactile controls.
  - Nursie 4y ago
    Ah, the UK story on that would be "fill kettle, plug it in, switch it on and wait for it to boil" Kettles on stoves are weird to us.
    - zach_garwood 4y ago
      So when you say, "I'm going to put the kettle on," you're referring to putting the kettle on the counter, not the stove? Or do Brits not use that expression for using a kettle.
      - Nursie 4y ago
        Yeah we say that, and it does mean the general case of putting your kettle on to boil. It could mean stovetop or electric. But for the vast majority of us it's electric.
        zach_garwood 4y ago
        I guess, for you, it's a phrase that's lost the original meaning. Like "hanging up" a phone or "rolling down" a car window.

by kebman 4y ago

bajsejohannes 4y ago

It's telling that no professional stoves have capacitive buttons.

maccard 4y ago
Just because something isnt used by professionals doesn't make it unsuitable for domestic use. I don't have a roll cage in my car, for example. That said capacitive touch has no place in the kitchen.
- chrlac 4y ago
  I'm not sure the example you provide really applies to the situation. Roll cages are mandatory in race cars, so effectively the contrary to "isn't used by professionals" . Also, they can be used in normal road cars. Granted, they're inconvenient but still provide added safety. An example that comes to mind is Continuously Variable Transmissions (CVT). Most types of motorsports avoid CVTs for reasons of weight, unreliability and decreased repairability. However, for normal road cars, CVTs are very widespread and they do the job just fine (until they don't, but that's another story!)
  - maccard 4y ago
    It's an analogy - it doesn't need to be a 100% perfect to be appropriate.

thorin 4y ago

Is this the only way they can make sure they break down frequently enough to force you to buy a new device every few years rather than building something that would normally last a generation. Also I guess they might save a couple of pounds in controls. I found a good local appliance repair guy recently (could probably do it myself, but I'm not good at that sort of thing). I intend to try and repair anything from now on rather than buy new.

logifail 4y ago

> it'll start beeping Speaking of beeping, why is it so hard to completely disable the "I'm finished" beep on household devices? My microwave beeps, incessantly. My dishwasher beeps, four times, when it's finished. Especially nice when this happens after midnight when everyone is sleeping. My washing machine beeps, for the best part of 10 mins, when it's finished. Also nice when this happens in the wee small hours. My tumble dryer - praise the Lord - has a function to disable its beeping. The beeping got disabled within minutes of it being installed.

raverbashing 4y ago
And the funny thing is how some people will be insistent they like the beeping! (usually the same ones with the memory span of a goldfish but I digres...) Of course, the best way is to make it configurable, but surely.
hansoolo 4y ago
>My washing machine beeps, for the best part of 10 mins, when it's finished. Also nice when this happens in the wee small hours. Hmmm? So it annoys you if it beeps at those times, but not when it RUNS at those times? I'm confused...
- logifail 4y ago
  > So it annoys you if it beeps at those times, but not when it RUNS at those times? I'm confused... Utility room is a long way from the bedroom, and the utility room door fits well. As long as you don't select a high-speed spin cycle the washing machine is more or less inaudible from the bedroom. The beeper, however, isn't inaudible, especially at night. Great design choice to make the beeper the loudest part of the device ... and then make it unmuteable. Yes, we did once ask the Siemens repair guy during a service visit.
- kebman 4y ago
  I have some friends that need white noise to sleep, and the sound of appliances gives them some of the same feel. Until it beeps. Then they clench their teeth and aggressively finds the nearest pillow to press down over their ears.

alpaca128 4y ago

Mine has a lock button for some reason, and of course it is the closest button to the hot area. Meaning if I slide a pan a bit too far to the front it'll cover & trigger the lock button because it's capacitive and now I can't use or even turn off the stove for a while unless I press on the now boiling hot lock button. This should be illegal.

albertgoeswoof 4y ago

I had an ikea induction hob with a similar UI, moved house and now I have a full size gas rangemaster with 5 rings. I really miss the induction hob. Cleaning the rangemaster is a complete nightmare, it’s full of places where dirt can accumulate, there’s even holes down the back and gaps in the side where food falls down that are unrecoverable. The gas rings sometimes don’t light up and gas leaks out while you’re cooking and don’t realise, it’s much more dangerous for children and I’ve left it on without realising a few times now. The buttons on the induction hob sucked, yes, but the user experience was so much better, literally wipe clean and done, safe and powerful. Maybe if I had a cleaner I’d prefer the rangemaster…

maccard 4y ago
Completely agree here that the entire experience was better despite the buttons. If I could choose, I would have an induction burner with front mounted dials for controls.
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
Why not both? Induction stove with knobs.
kebman 4y ago
I've only used gas stoves in Romania. I rather enjoyed it, and it heats up stuff much faster than regular electric stovetops. (Barring the induction tops ofc; I haven't owned one of those yet.) I guess it depends on the design, because I didn't find it hard to clean at all. Sadly I don't remember the brand. As for Norway, where I'm from, gas stoves are only a very rare exception as by far most homes use electric appliances, save for campers. As for most things, the UI really counts. With that said, I think it's harder to f up a really established design paradigm, such as those with old fashioned electric stovetops.

reuben364 4y ago

I have a combination microwave/conventional oven with capacitive buttons as well as a dial for temperature. You can only use the buttons to adjust the timing for the microwave in 10-second increments, leaving the dial completely unused in that modality.

bjackman 4y ago

Have you tried selecting a ring and then holding the "reduce power" button for a moment? I've found on some units this is a faster way to get to full power. And I had one where holding the up and down buttons together skips the selected ring straight to zero. Delighted that my new place just has knobs!

hyperdimension 4y ago
So in your case, holding 'reduce power' then actually raises the power to the maximum?! It's like an additional slap in the face.
- bjackman 4y ago
  Only when it's on 0. It "wraps around" (but if you go down from one, you need to release and touch again for this to happen).

NonNefarious 4y ago

My parents just got one of these POSes. What a UI fiasco. And my mom is afraid to let anything drip on it, because they told her she needs special cleaner or it'll ruin the finish. And my parents are not gullible people. Look forward to more of this shit, too: CA just outlawed gas appliances in new houses. But in an area stricken by permanent drought, do they do something sensible like requiring greywater recovery systems in new construction? NOPE.

licebmi__at__ 4y ago

I had a similar problem. A quick hack; try to put some small 3d stickers on it. At least on mine, they don’t register as input and leave enough space to use the button.

FridayoLeary 4y ago

Reminds me of this quote from the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy >The only profitable division of the company is its Complaints Department, which, according to the series, takes up the major landmasses on three planets. The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy defines its marketing division as "a bunch of mindless jerks who'll be the first against the wall when the revolution comes," and an edition of the Encyclopedia Galactica that had the good fortune to fall through a time warp from a thousand years in the future defines the marketing division of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation as "a bunch of mindless jerks who were the first against the wall when the revolution came."

daveoc64 4y ago

Capacitive touch buttons for electric/ceramic/induction hobs have been very common in the UK for the last 20 years. Like fan (convection) ovens, is this just something that Europe is used to and is alien to people in the USA? Personally, I love that the entire surface of the hob (including buttons) is a flat piece of glass. It makes cleaning trivial.

yason 4y ago
To boil a kettle of water before and after: Before: turn the knob to max and wait a moment. Today: long-press the on/off button to turn the stove top on, press another button to select plate, adjust power by hitting the plus button ten times to get it to the max setting. Then wait a moment. That's the worst damn user interface you can think of for using a physical machine that begs for tactile controls.
- Nursie 4y ago
  Ah, the UK story on that would be "fill kettle, plug it in, switch it on and wait for it to boil" Kettles on stoves are weird to us.
  - zach_garwood 4y ago
    So when you say, "I'm going to put the kettle on," you're referring to putting the kettle on the counter, not the stove? Or do Brits not use that expression for using a kettle.
    - Nursie 4y ago
      Yeah we say that, and it does mean the general case of putting your kettle on to boil. It could mean stovetop or electric. But for the vast majority of us it's electric.
      - zach_garwood 4y ago
        I guess, for you, it's a phrase that's lost the original meaning. Like "hanging up" a phone or "rolling down" a car window.