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That argument only holds if you stop driving your diesel altogether, as otherwise it's environmental cost will keep growing with no bounds while an acquired bat

That argument only holds if you stop driving your diesel altogether, as otherwise it's environmental cost will keep growing with no bounds while an acquired battery-electric would be busy amortizing it's one-time(-ish) cost. What OP said was about repairing stuff to avoid smart appliances. From an environmental perspective using old stuff is often much worse than getting new (fridge, car, ...).

theodric 4y ago
This is only true if the power to run the electric car is environmentally less damaging than the diesel's emissions. With Germany's obsession with using diesel vehicles to mine brown coal to burn for power, I'm not convinced it is.
- abrugsch 4y ago
  I think this is going to be very country specific. The UK for example has barely used any coal (relatively) for the main grid with a considerable amount of coal-free days in the past couple of years. (currently coal provides 0.0% of the UK's fossil fuel electricity production and nearly 14% is renewable[0] though it was up to nearly 3% in February[1]) So while there is still a majority of the electricity coming from fossil sources (namely gas) it is on the decline and I'd certainly posit that a somewhat modern power station can generate electricity more efficiently than a car's diesel engine can... (happy to be proven wrong on this as I can't find any direct studies) [0]https://grid.iamkate.com/ https://grid.iamkate.com/ [1]https://www.nationalgrideso.com/electricity-explained/electricity-and-me/great-britains-monthly-electricity-stats https://www.nationalgrideso.com/electricity-explained/electr...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
abrugsch 4y ago
The solution to this one is the one I am planning. Remove the terribly polluting diesel engine and replace the heavy engine/clutch (dual mass flywheel in this case) and fuel system and replace with only a nominally heavier BEV system. what you gain from the engine and fuel tank (if you assume a full 60 litre tank) from a majorly lighter electric motor, you then lose on the weight of the batteries. With open source modules like the open-inverter project, you can have the benefit of keeping control of your vehicle and it not becoming an iPad on wheels while also prolonging of the useful life and keeping most of the invested production environmental costs. My example vehicle is nearing 20 years old (it's a late 2003 model) and it still drives great and only generally needs typical consumable/wear and tear items to get through annual inspections. It's generally powertrain elements that are starting to be of concern, but an electric conversion would simplify that no end, and actually bring more of the maintenance into my own personal knowledge domain (Power Electrics, Electronics and software/firmware) and by re-using salvaged EV powertrains, not actually having a further impact on the environmental CAPEX. Granted the DIY-EV route isn't for everyone but it definitely is for some people
jl6 4y ago
It’s not an easy calculation though. The environmental cost of manufacturing the vehicle really is very high. The total environmental cost of ownership depends on how much you drive it. For some level of use, it will be better for the environment to keep an old diesel than to build a new electric.
- arghwhat 4y ago
  The problem is that polluting a little over many years end up being a hell of a lot. EPA has some US-specific numbers (https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myth5 https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myt...), which indicate that manufacturing remains a tiny part of the lifecycle of the car.

theodric 4y ago

This is only true if the power to run the electric car is environmentally less damaging than the diesel's emissions. With Germany's obsession with using diesel vehicles to mine brown coal to burn for power, I'm not convinced it is.

abrugsch 4y ago
I think this is going to be very country specific. The UK for example has barely used any coal (relatively) for the main grid with a considerable amount of coal-free days in the past couple of years. (currently coal provides 0.0% of the UK's fossil fuel electricity production and nearly 14% is renewable[0] though it was up to nearly 3% in February[1]) So while there is still a majority of the electricity coming from fossil sources (namely gas) it is on the decline and I'd certainly posit that a somewhat modern power station can generate electricity more efficiently than a car's diesel engine can... (happy to be proven wrong on this as I can't find any direct studies) [0]https://grid.iamkate.com/ https://grid.iamkate.com/ [1]https://www.nationalgrideso.com/electricity-explained/electricity-and-me/great-britains-monthly-electricity-stats https://www.nationalgrideso.com/electricity-explained/electr...
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

abrugsch 4y ago

The solution to this one is the one I am planning. Remove the terribly polluting diesel engine and replace the heavy engine/clutch (dual mass flywheel in this case) and fuel system and replace with only a nominally heavier BEV system. what you gain from the engine and fuel tank (if you assume a full 60 litre tank) from a majorly lighter electric motor, you then lose on the weight of the batteries. With open source modules like the open-inverter project, you can have the benefit of keeping control of your vehicle and it not becoming an iPad on wheels while also prolonging of the useful life and keeping most of the invested production environmental costs. My example vehicle is nearing 20 years old (it's a late 2003 model) and it still drives great and only generally needs typical consumable/wear and tear items to get through annual inspections. It's generally powertrain elements that are starting to be of concern, but an electric conversion would simplify that no end, and actually bring more of the maintenance into my own personal knowledge domain (Power Electrics, Electronics and software/firmware) and by re-using salvaged EV powertrains, not actually having a further impact on the environmental CAPEX. Granted the DIY-EV route isn't for everyone but it definitely is for some people

jl6 4y ago

It’s not an easy calculation though. The environmental cost of manufacturing the vehicle really is very high. The total environmental cost of ownership depends on how much you drive it. For some level of use, it will be better for the environment to keep an old diesel than to build a new electric.

arghwhat 4y ago
The problem is that polluting a little over many years end up being a hell of a lot. EPA has some US-specific numbers (https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myth5 https://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/electric-vehicle-myths#Myt...), which indicate that manufacturing remains a tiny part of the lifecycle of the car.