5 ms·

But it will finish much faster! Finding a brand new but 20 years old dishwasher or washing machine would be awesome, at least in the EU. In Sweden, almost all

But it will finish much faster! Finding a brand new but 20 years old dishwasher or washing machine would be awesome, at least in the EU. In Sweden, almost all of my electrical bill is heating anyway and water is practically free. My dishwasher's default program requires 4—5 hours. In the 90s, this was <1h I think?

danielbln 4y ago
I'm pretty sure your dishwasher has a fast program, I know mine does. Default is 3.5h, the fast program will only take 90 minutes, but of course use a fair amount more electricity since it has to heat the water to a higher temperature.
- andylynch 4y ago
  It's worth checking the manual - my IKEA dishwasher's fast program uses less energy and water, and 1/5 of the time (but is only good for lighter loads).
- NonNefarious 4y ago
  Which raises the question of whether using hot water from the water heater (at least as a starting point) would provide a net savings. It's not as if the dishwasher hoards very much water for a load.
  - maccard 4y ago
    _maybe_ but it's not a guarantee. You still need a heating element in the dishwasher as there's no guarantee that the hot water is actually at the correct temperature. If the supply is a hot water tank, the tank might not be full, and in an on demand system you might have cold water in the pipes. > It's not as if the dishwasher hoards very much water for a load. Apologies if I misread this but dishwashers absolutely _do_ hoard and reuse water. My dishwasher claims to use about 12l of water for a full wash, which really isn't much at all.
    - NonNefarious 4y ago
      No problem. My point was that they don't hoard MUCH water; the small amount they do hoard saves water over continuous flow. And also that using already-hot water gets it closer to the desired temperature at least, meaning less work for the heating element. If you're using a conventional water heater that's just pointlessly keeping your water hot all day, I figure you might as well use it. But of course, there's still a net loss of hot water that must be replaced using energy, so at best.... (you know what's coming)... It's a wash.
greenpresident 4y ago
One reason is that it compensates lower temperature with longer wash time and uses airflow instead of heating to dry. Both are measures to reduce the environmental impact. The same is true for energy efficient washing machines by the way, they often do not reach the temperature a program states and compensate with longer washing times. This may be problematic for hygienic reasons at times but has a noticeable impact on energy use.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
josephg 4y ago
Whoa! For comparison, my ~2010 dishwasher here in Australia still only takes 45 minutes to wash a load of dishes.
- danielbln 4y ago
  Modern dishwashers can run anywhere from 15 minutes to 4 hours, depending on the program chosen. I like choice, personally.
rubenbe 4y ago
I stopped using the default "eco" program and switched to the faster "auto" program on my dishwasher since watching this video on how these programs actually work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04 TLDwatch: eco programs use only one batch of water, others use two and that results in cleaner dishes with the added benefit of a faster program.
- morsch 4y ago
  That's going to depend on your dishwasher. Our dishwasher does a prewash even in eco mode. But the water won't get as hot (to save power) and it takes longer. On the other hand, the 30 minute mode only does the one main wash. Check your manual.
- llarsson 4y ago
  I am secretly convinced they have "eco" programs just to get the A+++ rating on energy efficiency, but that you're not really meant to use those modes.
  - ars 4y ago
    That's not a secret, that's exactly why they do it. I feel like I read that in the manual that comes with my dishwasher. It was worded a bit differently, but it essentially said to use auto mode to get cleaner dishes, not eco which saves money but doesn't clean as well.
Kiro 4y ago
It takes longer because of environmental reasons and just because water is cheap doesn't mean we should waste it. We currently have a huge water shortage in Sweden. https://www.sgu.se/grundvatten/grundvattennivaer/aktuella-grundvattennivaer/ https://www.sgu.se/grundvatten/grundvattennivaer/aktuella-gr...
- jeltz 4y ago
  You are probably looking at the wrong map. There is currently a shortage of water for small wells in parts of Sweden. On the other hand there is more water than usual for municipal water in most of Sweden. Plus some places like Stockholm use lake water which is always plentiful. This is bad news for people with their own wells but go for people who pay for their water.
  - Kiro 4y ago
    I don't doubt you're right about the lake water. However, this morning they again warned about low groundwater levels on the local Stockholm news and that we might see an irrigation ban (as has become common practice last few years). They also urged people to use less water so it definitely seems to be a problem in Stockholm as well, even with the lake water.
- rndgermandude 4y ago
  The average dishwasher uses about the amount of water you'd use for 1-2 minutes of shower time. Newer models use around 9 liters per cycle, older ones and non-eco modes often 15 liters, and really old ones often 25 liters. A typical shower outputs 5-10 liters per minute. The water savings with eco-programs compared to "normal" programs is in the range of 10 seconds to 1 minute worth of shower time, if I remember correctly. If you want to conserve water use, there are a lot better ways to do so than running a dishwasher in eco mode. (Washing dishes by hand uses more water on average than even an old dishwasher). Then, the terminology of "waste" is a bit problematic I think. The dishwater will usually output the spent water into some kind of sewer system in most places, and at some point this water usually gets cleaned and put back into circulation pretty much straight away. If not, it usually reaches nature again eventually. It's not like it became so toxic it needs to be stored safely for millennia. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be mindful, of course, especially when there are current (regional) shortages. Energy consumption (mainly to heat water) is a different matter. Energy consumption is the real environmental cost, not water consumption, as water is basically renewable, but energy is often produced from non-renewable sources and has secondary effects such as carbon emissions, which in turn effect climate change and in turn regional water availability. But even then again, reducing shower time by a minute, or water temperature, will have a greater impact on energy consumption than running a dishwasher in eco mode (on average).

danielbln 4y ago

I'm pretty sure your dishwasher has a fast program, I know mine does. Default is 3.5h, the fast program will only take 90 minutes, but of course use a fair amount more electricity since it has to heat the water to a higher temperature.

andylynch 4y ago
It's worth checking the manual - my IKEA dishwasher's fast program uses less energy and water, and 1/5 of the time (but is only good for lighter loads).
NonNefarious 4y ago
Which raises the question of whether using hot water from the water heater (at least as a starting point) would provide a net savings. It's not as if the dishwasher hoards very much water for a load.
- maccard 4y ago
  _maybe_ but it's not a guarantee. You still need a heating element in the dishwasher as there's no guarantee that the hot water is actually at the correct temperature. If the supply is a hot water tank, the tank might not be full, and in an on demand system you might have cold water in the pipes. > It's not as if the dishwasher hoards very much water for a load. Apologies if I misread this but dishwashers absolutely _do_ hoard and reuse water. My dishwasher claims to use about 12l of water for a full wash, which really isn't much at all.
  - NonNefarious 4y ago
    No problem. My point was that they don't hoard MUCH water; the small amount they do hoard saves water over continuous flow. And also that using already-hot water gets it closer to the desired temperature at least, meaning less work for the heating element. If you're using a conventional water heater that's just pointlessly keeping your water hot all day, I figure you might as well use it. But of course, there's still a net loss of hot water that must be replaced using energy, so at best.... (you know what's coming)... It's a wash.

greenpresident 4y ago

One reason is that it compensates lower temperature with longer wash time and uses airflow instead of heating to dry. Both are measures to reduce the environmental impact. The same is true for energy efficient washing machines by the way, they often do not reach the temperature a program states and compensate with longer washing times. This may be problematic for hygienic reasons at times but has a noticeable impact on energy use.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

josephg 4y ago

Whoa! For comparison, my ~2010 dishwasher here in Australia still only takes 45 minutes to wash a load of dishes.

danielbln 4y ago
Modern dishwashers can run anywhere from 15 minutes to 4 hours, depending on the program chosen. I like choice, personally.

rubenbe 4y ago

I stopped using the default "eco" program and switched to the faster "auto" program on my dishwasher since watching this video on how these programs actually work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rBO8neWw04 TLDwatch: eco programs use only one batch of water, others use two and that results in cleaner dishes with the added benefit of a faster program.

morsch 4y ago
That's going to depend on your dishwasher. Our dishwasher does a prewash even in eco mode. But the water won't get as hot (to save power) and it takes longer. On the other hand, the 30 minute mode only does the one main wash. Check your manual.
llarsson 4y ago
I am secretly convinced they have "eco" programs just to get the A+++ rating on energy efficiency, but that you're not really meant to use those modes.
- ars 4y ago
  That's not a secret, that's exactly why they do it. I feel like I read that in the manual that comes with my dishwasher. It was worded a bit differently, but it essentially said to use auto mode to get cleaner dishes, not eco which saves money but doesn't clean as well.

Kiro 4y ago

It takes longer because of environmental reasons and just because water is cheap doesn't mean we should waste it. We currently have a huge water shortage in Sweden. https://www.sgu.se/grundvatten/grundvattennivaer/aktuella-grundvattennivaer/ https://www.sgu.se/grundvatten/grundvattennivaer/aktuella-gr...

jeltz 4y ago
You are probably looking at the wrong map. There is currently a shortage of water for small wells in parts of Sweden. On the other hand there is more water than usual for municipal water in most of Sweden. Plus some places like Stockholm use lake water which is always plentiful. This is bad news for people with their own wells but go for people who pay for their water.
- Kiro 4y ago
  I don't doubt you're right about the lake water. However, this morning they again warned about low groundwater levels on the local Stockholm news and that we might see an irrigation ban (as has become common practice last few years). They also urged people to use less water so it definitely seems to be a problem in Stockholm as well, even with the lake water.
rndgermandude 4y ago
The average dishwasher uses about the amount of water you'd use for 1-2 minutes of shower time. Newer models use around 9 liters per cycle, older ones and non-eco modes often 15 liters, and really old ones often 25 liters. A typical shower outputs 5-10 liters per minute. The water savings with eco-programs compared to "normal" programs is in the range of 10 seconds to 1 minute worth of shower time, if I remember correctly. If you want to conserve water use, there are a lot better ways to do so than running a dishwasher in eco mode. (Washing dishes by hand uses more water on average than even an old dishwasher). Then, the terminology of "waste" is a bit problematic I think. The dishwater will usually output the spent water into some kind of sewer system in most places, and at some point this water usually gets cleaned and put back into circulation pretty much straight away. If not, it usually reaches nature again eventually. It's not like it became so toxic it needs to be stored safely for millennia. That doesn't mean we shouldn't be mindful, of course, especially when there are current (regional) shortages. Energy consumption (mainly to heat water) is a different matter. Energy consumption is the real environmental cost, not water consumption, as water is basically renewable, but energy is often produced from non-renewable sources and has secondary effects such as carbon emissions, which in turn effect climate change and in turn regional water availability. But even then again, reducing shower time by a minute, or water temperature, will have a greater impact on energy consumption than running a dishwasher in eco mode (on average).