4 ms·

The web wasn't taken over by advertising and walled gardens. It was always like that. Most of the folks experiencing those Angelfire or GeoCities sites back in

The web wasn't taken over by advertising and walled gardens. It was always like that. Most of the folks experiencing those Angelfire or GeoCities sites back in the day got online through a paid portal. Popups and banners were ubiquitous (web 0, gopher 1). The web never quite met Ted Nelson's (among others) dreams. It's the 21st century and not only do I not have bidirectional links but there's no hope of Nelson-style transclusion. [1] And Xanadu [2] remains a dream. I'd be more interested in seeing or helping explore lost ideas like those than in creating some shadow of the actual 1990s. That would allow us to explore other past futures (alternative presents?) than this one. And why the nostalgia trip for old web if not exploring what we lost? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transclusion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transclusion [2] Not a direct link to info only about Xanadu, but better in this context - a Mondo 2000 interview where Nelson talks abuot Xanadu: https://archive.org/details/XPARA.d8Nov87/mode/1up https://archive.org/details/XPARA.d8Nov87/mode/1up

chrisweekly 4y ago
Bidirectional links and transclusion are core, essential features in the wave of amazing PKM tools and services that the "Tools For Thought" community uses in daily work. See eg Obsidian, logseq, roam / athens, etc.
- nonrandomstring 4y ago
  Here are the seeds of the future of actual AI, maybe in 50-100 years. Useful AI (not machine learning, classifiers etc) begins in IA (intelligence amplification) and builds outwards according to human needs.
  - visarga 4y ago
    > Useful AI (not machine learning, classifiers etc) That's the most useful AI we have to date. But I agree with you, intelligence amplification is my most desired AI fruit. I hope to experience it someday. I am experimenting today with using GPT-3 to get difficult concepts explained in a Q&A fashion, with or without contextual text. Results are mixed, sometimes it can dumb down a concept to make it clear, other times I feel I better spend my time reading the original paper. I foresee personalised tutoring by language models becoming a trend. Not just for kids, but for everyone who needs to keep up with a rapid changing field and needs to research a lot of scientific literature.
synu 4y ago
AOL was definitely a trash heap and as you describe with the ads, but it was ridiculed for being that way. I can definitely remember using the web pre-walled garden and pre-advertising. Back when the primary way to log on was through a shell account it was definitely this way. Gopher was similar. Even when I got my first PPP dial up account and could properly browse without Lynx the web was very enthusiast driven. Companies just weren’t there yet. I agree that we can’t remake the 90s, but there was definitely a point where the internet was very much like a worldwide computer club or mega BBS.
jamal-kumar 4y ago
I love clicking through 90s internet on websites I barely remember from those times on the internet archive. One of the earliest websites on the net was deoxy.org emerging from a mailing list that started in the 1980s, there was a big community around it that changed my life for the better. Here's a mirror [1] Here's an even older one [2] I'm of the opinion that this website is of archaeological significance. Glad there's mirrors out there. Rumor has it that guy who ran it got a job at Apple and was compelled to get rid of the thing. Wild. [1] https://tedwilliams.co/deoxy/ https://tedwilliams.co/deoxy/ [2] https://www.jacobsm.com/deoxy/deoxy.org/deoxy.htm https://www.jacobsm.com/deoxy/deoxy.org/deoxy.htm
deleted 4y ago
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chrisweekly 4y ago

Bidirectional links and transclusion are core, essential features in the wave of amazing PKM tools and services that the "Tools For Thought" community uses in daily work. See eg Obsidian, logseq, roam / athens, etc.

nonrandomstring 4y ago
Here are the seeds of the future of actual AI, maybe in 50-100 years. Useful AI (not machine learning, classifiers etc) begins in IA (intelligence amplification) and builds outwards according to human needs.
- visarga 4y ago
  > Useful AI (not machine learning, classifiers etc) That's the most useful AI we have to date. But I agree with you, intelligence amplification is my most desired AI fruit. I hope to experience it someday. I am experimenting today with using GPT-3 to get difficult concepts explained in a Q&A fashion, with or without contextual text. Results are mixed, sometimes it can dumb down a concept to make it clear, other times I feel I better spend my time reading the original paper. I foresee personalised tutoring by language models becoming a trend. Not just for kids, but for everyone who needs to keep up with a rapid changing field and needs to research a lot of scientific literature.

synu 4y ago

AOL was definitely a trash heap and as you describe with the ads, but it was ridiculed for being that way. I can definitely remember using the web pre-walled garden and pre-advertising. Back when the primary way to log on was through a shell account it was definitely this way. Gopher was similar. Even when I got my first PPP dial up account and could properly browse without Lynx the web was very enthusiast driven. Companies just weren’t there yet. I agree that we can’t remake the 90s, but there was definitely a point where the internet was very much like a worldwide computer club or mega BBS.

jamal-kumar 4y ago

I love clicking through 90s internet on websites I barely remember from those times on the internet archive. One of the earliest websites on the net was deoxy.org emerging from a mailing list that started in the 1980s, there was a big community around it that changed my life for the better. Here's a mirror [1] Here's an even older one [2] I'm of the opinion that this website is of archaeological significance. Glad there's mirrors out there. Rumor has it that guy who ran it got a job at Apple and was compelled to get rid of the thing. Wild. [1] https://tedwilliams.co/deoxy/ https://tedwilliams.co/deoxy/ [2] https://www.jacobsm.com/deoxy/deoxy.org/deoxy.htm https://www.jacobsm.com/deoxy/deoxy.org/deoxy.htm

deleted 4y ago

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