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Data Leak Provides a Look into China's Brutal Camp System
- kradeelav 4y agoThis feels huge, at first glance, to have this confirmed so much more than it has been. And monstrous. All I can say is those who are exposing this violence are heroes.
- hunglee2 4y agothe 'data leak' which contains traditional rather than simplified Chinese script.
- Canada 4y agoThat's interesting. Can you elaborate on this?
- hunglee2 4y agoSure - mainland uses simplified Chinese script (in order to increase literacy), whilst Hong Kong and ROC continue to use traditional Chinese script. PRC went through a similar process with Chinese literacy as the US did with Americanisation of English spelling, though of course the Communists went top down mandate, whilst the Americans relied on the successful distribution of spelling guides and dictionaries. In relation to this story, one of the key artefacts evidentialising the claims actually is contains traditional Chinese characters. A comparator would be if CIA document that uses English spellings, a significant incongruity. To a Chinese reader, this would be obvious but of course the audience for this was Western market
- lionkor 4y agoSeems like nothing more than an indicator, far from proof for any tampering. If I was part of a goverment and I was doing something bad, I might feel like doing it in Dutch instead of the goverment language, just because if something gets leaked, it seems weird "why would it be in dutch, it cant be real". Im not implying anything and i dont care, I just feel like this is a fallacy to some degree
- hunglee2 4y agoall we have are indicators, discovery of what is true is becoming an increasingly untenable task, especially when truth producers are at at it on a full time professional basis. My question to is: if someone produced an email purportedly from Hilary Clinton where she used the spelling 'gaol' instead of 'jail', would you consider this notable or trivial?
- loceng 4y agoIt's too bad there wasn't a global organization that could go in to see and interview these supposed political prisoners being persecuted and their cultures being genocided - to see if there's any truth or pattern of abuse/genocide to their stories! Oh wait, the United Nations wanted to - but the CCP has refused.
- hunglee2 4y agoIf I am not mistaken, the UN visited just this week, to precisely investigate the allegations. US State dept has already condemned the visit of course, and rejected the findings. Of course
- yorwba 4y agoYou really should provide links to sources, but since you failed to do so on the font issue, I guess we'll be left hanging.
- GameOfFrowns 4y agoIs US State Department official enough for you? https://www.state.gov/concerns-with-un-high-commissioner-for-human-rights-visit-to-the-peoples-republic-of-china/ https://www.state.gov/concerns-with-un-high-commissioner-for...
- yorwba 4y ago
- yorwba 4y ago> one of the key artefacts evidentialising the claims actually is contains traditional Chinese characters Link?
- JudasGoat 4y agoI watched a recent YouTube video from ADVChina where Winston explains that situation with the fonts. He disproves the theory that traditional Chinese is being used in the document. It is a fairly long explanation but the gist of it is that some simplified Chinese fonts bear more of a resemblence to traditional Chinese.
- yorwba 4y agoI hope you realize the irony of replying to a comment asking for a link without linking to anything. I assume it's this channel https://youtube.com/c/ADVChina https://youtube.com/c/ADVChina but none of the recent uploads have titles that seem relevant.
- Canada 4y agoIs it one document? Many documents? Does the article mention it? What about all of the pictures? Do you happen to have a link to the document in question, or a title I could use to search for it?
- himinlomax 4y agoSome documents that were NOT part of the original leak but rather commentary or retranscriptions used characters that are not used in mainland China but instead in HK/Taiwan. CCP apologists have latched onto that to falsely claim that the leaks are fraudulent.
- d0mine 4y ago> CCP apologist Could you link to the corresponding comments? (two link would be enough)
- dr_hooo 4y agoCan you explain what you are suggesting with your comment?
- GameOfFrowns 4y agoI'd guess the implication is that some of the data was created or edited on a Taiwanese system.
- TT-392 4y agoI assume they are talking about the fact that the official script of china is simplified Chinese (at least, I am pretty sure it is). Though I have no idea if this would mean that all official documents are in simplified chinese in practice.
- neonsunset 4y ago
- gfaure 4y agoI don’t see any screenshots in the story containing text. Can you elaborate?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- mhoad 4y agoFTA: Through Zenz, the data from this new leak, the Xinjiang Police Files, found its way to an international media consortium including 14 partners. In Germany, these included the public broadcaster Bayerischer Rundfunk (BR) and DER SPIEGEL. International partners include Le Monde, the BBC, USA Today, El País and the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists (ICIJ). The international reporting team spent weeks verifying the authenticity of the data. Photos showing buildings were matched up with satellite photos. Some of the photos also included GPS data indicating the precise location where the picture was taken. Individual documents and photos were sent to renowned forensic experts for examination and the speeches and official instructions were compared with earlier leaks and statements by Chinese party cadres. Finally, a team comprised of journalists from DER SPIEGEL and the BBC traveled to Turkey and the Netherlands to meet with family members of camp inmates whose names and photos could be found in the data. The conclusion: The data is authentic. Disturbingly so.
- hulitu 4y ago"Photos showing buildings were matched up with satellite photos". I did the same with google maps. Really authentic.
- blablabla123 4y agoNo expert but here's a link: https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2022/05/24/uyghur-data-leak-when-china-kept-a-close-eye-on-european-diplomats-visiting-xinjiang_5984535_4.html https://www.lemonde.fr/en/international/article/2022/05/24/u... The text below the yellow headline "州直各县市公安局:" means "Public Security Bureaus of all counties and cities directly under the prefecture:" and is Simplified Chinese if I'm not mistaken. In Traditional Chinese it would be written "州直各縣市公安局:". The differing 4th letter is 县 (simplified) vs 縣 (traditional). Checked with https://www.purpleculture.net/traditional-simplified-converter/ https://www.purpleculture.net/traditional-simplified-convert... and Google Translate...
- honkdaddy 4y agoWhy are pro-China commenters so often like this? Why can't they just say what they mean, rather than muddying the waters?
- d0mine 4y agoIf truth is on your side, you should not be afraid if someone is pointing out potentially illuminating facts. You just put them in proper context. Or your point that the statements are actually false?
- yorwba 4y agoWorse, unsourced.
- honkdaddy 4y agoThe truth is on my side; state-sponsored ethnic genocide is absolutely happening in China. The fact you think it's there's still an "if" to be discussed is a bit concerning - it's a bit like saying "If the Holocaust really happened..." The rest of your comment doesn't really make much sense to me. I'm criticizing hunglee2 for making such a vague comment which serves more of a dogwhistle than anything rather than actually articulating his opinions. He later lets on - "In relation to this story, one of the key artefacts evidentialising the claims actually is contains traditional Chinese characters. A comparator would be if CIA document that uses English spellings, a significant incongruity. To a Chinese reader, this would be obvious but of course the audience for this was Western market" Which is almost comically poor reasoning. Without even calling into fact how poorly written and wrought with errors his comment itself is, imagine if all it took for American citizens to doubt the veracity of any of the Clinton or Trump leaks were a few Commonwealth spelled words? It's just such laughable analysis. As usual, what you see is just more deflection and water muddying from pro-CCP commenters who are in denial about the crimes their government is committing.
- DiogenesKynikos 4y ago> state-sponsored ethnic genocide is absolutely happening in China There's no evidence of any mass killing. As far as I can tell, nobody is even alleging mass killing. In fact, the Uyghur population is growing and life expectancy is increasing. The word "genocide" has a real and very important meaning, but the US government seems intent on misusing it for base political purposes. It's difficult to comprehend the level of cynicism involved in making obviously false claims of genocide, but that's what the US government is doing.
- lyrachord 4y ago
- loceng 4y agoThe only two reasons that the CCP seems to not simply be exterminating is: 1) they see more value, for the moment, in these people as workers-slaves (so if they can successfully "rehabilitate"/"re-educate" them, then that's better for everyone), and 2) there could also be a factor of not overstepping too far over the line that would require the "free world" to apply the same level of economic sanctions swiftly against China as Russia was recently successfully hit with. My current concerns are: 3) When might this change, what conditions change where the CCP goes full holocaust of political dissidents (and easy to do en mass now with the lockdown-"test"-quarantine-disappear ["they died of virus"] funnel): is it having their current disparate but synergistic systems, and teams of people under whatever ethical framework necessary for them to morally carry out their part of the work flow, far enough tested and refined and ready for scaling? Are they just getting into their practice, and seeing how the system, society responds? 4) The rest of the world, with the WEF seeming to toe the line, are pushing for Digital ID and moving towards similar levels of control on freedom, manufacturing consent for mandates and exclusion from society (similar to Social Credit system in China), and internet censorship (as part of "fight against disinformation" as their propaganda). E.g. The internet censorship bill the government of Canada (Trudeau's Liberals) is currently trying to pass the Senate (bill C-11); the Canadian government trying to pass this actually are claiming that censorship of some will actually increase free speech overall - basically that people being "offensive" are turning off people from freely sharing how they feel online; coddling, paternalism - as a guise to further control, suppress the truth; among other bills to be able to influence the information Canadians see, only inches less bad than outright censorship when it comes to further being able to program the majority of Canadians (such as required injection of content they deem you inject into what you present).
- narrator 4y agoGiven what I know about the cultural revolution, struggle sessions, etc. I think there's a burning desire in the CCP to develop and refine methodology to fix dissidents so they no longer cause trouble. The malleability of the human mind and belief systems is something they seem to be fascinated with as a sort of twisted science project.