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What's interesting is how you and others have basically given up on any arguments around USER (not business) harm. When looking at the many many thousands of b

What's interesting is how you and others have basically given up on any arguments around USER (not business) harm. When looking at the many many thousands of businesses online and their behavior - you have decided that APPLE (with a much smaller market share than google) has come up with an approach (protecting users on their app store / platform) that is so horrible in its impacts on other businesses that the full weight of the govt should be brought to bear to tell them how to run their business. This is the SAME govt by the way that absolutely screws folks over with its OWN billing process at the IRS where 90% of calls get an immediate disconnect, mail will sit unopened for 2 years, and millions of docs will be shredded without ever being looked at. What the govt and you fail to understand is that users may not see the market power apple wields as a negative. In fact, in a world where the user force can basically never stand up to big corp voice (of Facebook or Match.com or whomever) apple is another big player that can. Is this altruistic? Far from it, it's a business play - and one that I'd love to see rewarded vs destroyed. The reality is the DoJ hates apple for many reasons. They absolutely shut the DoJ down on a phone unlock case. They have pretty clearly created end to end encryption with iMessage. So yes, between facebook, match and biden/doj political stuff - they are going to be targeted. If you think this is a careful result of looking at places of greatest user harm and pursuing them, think again.

akira2501 4y ago
> have basically given up on any arguments around USER (not business) harm. No, I explicitly mentioned that. Users are obviously harmed by lack of competition in pricing and with product release schedules and support mechanisms that are designed to extract the maximum amount of revenue from them. It's not as if Apple hasn't been known to engage in precisely this behavior with many of their product lines. > This is the SAME govt by the way Again, you're making asserts that may be true, but you're not reliably connecting them to your overall point. Yes, the government itself sometimes gets it wrong, does this enjoin them from ever attempting to get it right? They can only go after Apple, but only once they've fixed the IRS phone system? > may not see the market power apple wields as a negative I'm sure heroin users don't see the market power that heroin dealers hold as a negative, either. This isn't a useful measure and it entirely ignores their monopoly position in the labor and supply markets as well, which have historically been pernicious and poorly publicized but real problems that monopolies present. > Is this altruistic? Far from it, it's a business play - and one that I'd love to see rewarded vs destroyed. Just because half your publicly traded business seems to comport to some imagined idealism does not excuse you from following the letter of the law in any other domain. Al Capone used to run soup kitchens with free food, and it worked for a time, but it ultimately didn't save him either. So, it's great that they get many things right, but it's also great the FTC is on their back ensuring that they get the other things right and aren't abusing their monopoly position as well. I fail to see how we are deprived as citizens by any part of this process. > If you think this is a careful result of looking at places of greatest user harm and pursuing them, think again. I don't think you've been paying attention to the the FTC, staff changes, or the politics surrounding it for the past 2 years, knowledge of which really undercuts the government conspiracy narrative you're attempting to peddle here.
- onphonenow 4y ago
  Your claim that apple doesn't provide support is false. Apple provides some of the LONGEST levels of support for their products. That increases the value of their products, it does not decrease the value. The chinese android phone you celebrate will ship with one generation back android and NEVER get updated. So if you look at devices holding value, iphones are WAY up there. iOS 15.5 will include updates all the way back to things like iphone 6S. Users see through this with the govt. In many places, including potentially the US, users will trust Apple MORE than they do their govt. Let that sink in for a bit. People think their own politicians are likely more corrupt than Apple (!). In terms of your claim around user harm - apple has a clear annual product release schedule that is HIGHLY predictable. I wouldn't call that a user harm. They offer by FAR the longest support options, and some of the best support in terms of retail store access - and if you want you can do applecare with theft and loss protection as well. The experience (I've used it once) is very good, absolutely crushes the companies you and the FTC are supporting. I was in and out in 15 minutes. In terms of my paying attention to FTC et al, I'm pretty sure I've been around this a LOT longer than you have been. I like the idealism you've got, but give it some time - you'll see it's not a govt conspiracy, just selective enforcement of easy targets for political and other reasons.

akira2501 4y ago

> have basically given up on any arguments around USER (not business) harm. No, I explicitly mentioned that. Users are obviously harmed by lack of competition in pricing and with product release schedules and support mechanisms that are designed to extract the maximum amount of revenue from them. It's not as if Apple hasn't been known to engage in precisely this behavior with many of their product lines. > This is the SAME govt by the way Again, you're making asserts that may be true, but you're not reliably connecting them to your overall point. Yes, the government itself sometimes gets it wrong, does this enjoin them from ever attempting to get it right? They can only go after Apple, but only once they've fixed the IRS phone system? > may not see the market power apple wields as a negative I'm sure heroin users don't see the market power that heroin dealers hold as a negative, either. This isn't a useful measure and it entirely ignores their monopoly position in the labor and supply markets as well, which have historically been pernicious and poorly publicized but real problems that monopolies present. > Is this altruistic? Far from it, it's a business play - and one that I'd love to see rewarded vs destroyed. Just because half your publicly traded business seems to comport to some imagined idealism does not excuse you from following the letter of the law in any other domain. Al Capone used to run soup kitchens with free food, and it worked for a time, but it ultimately didn't save him either. So, it's great that they get many things right, but it's also great the FTC is on their back ensuring that they get the other things right and aren't abusing their monopoly position as well. I fail to see how we are deprived as citizens by any part of this process. > If you think this is a careful result of looking at places of greatest user harm and pursuing them, think again. I don't think you've been paying attention to the the FTC, staff changes, or the politics surrounding it for the past 2 years, knowledge of which really undercuts the government conspiracy narrative you're attempting to peddle here.

onphonenow 4y ago
Your claim that apple doesn't provide support is false. Apple provides some of the LONGEST levels of support for their products. That increases the value of their products, it does not decrease the value. The chinese android phone you celebrate will ship with one generation back android and NEVER get updated. So if you look at devices holding value, iphones are WAY up there. iOS 15.5 will include updates all the way back to things like iphone 6S. Users see through this with the govt. In many places, including potentially the US, users will trust Apple MORE than they do their govt. Let that sink in for a bit. People think their own politicians are likely more corrupt than Apple (!). In terms of your claim around user harm - apple has a clear annual product release schedule that is HIGHLY predictable. I wouldn't call that a user harm. They offer by FAR the longest support options, and some of the best support in terms of retail store access - and if you want you can do applecare with theft and loss protection as well. The experience (I've used it once) is very good, absolutely crushes the companies you and the FTC are supporting. I was in and out in 15 minutes. In terms of my paying attention to FTC et al, I'm pretty sure I've been around this a LOT longer than you have been. I like the idealism you've got, but give it some time - you'll see it's not a govt conspiracy, just selective enforcement of easy targets for political and other reasons.