4 ms·

They don't work for many bicycle geometries[1]. Small vs large frames, small vs large wheels, wide vs narrow tyres, tricycles, tandem bikes, cargo bikes, recumb

by _dain_ 4y ago

They don't work for many bicycle geometries[1]. Small vs large frames, small vs large wheels, wide vs narrow tyres, tricycles, tandem bikes, cargo bikes, recumbent bikes, hand-cranked bikes etc. Also if they are too finicky about the exact way you lock the bike (particular orientation, particular lock-point) it can be hard to make it work when there are obstacles (such as other bikes). The Sheffield stand makes the fewest assumptions. The "wheel grabber" kinds are particularly useless; thieves just detach the wheel or snip the wires and make off with the remainder. [1] I'll give an example: the other week I tried to lock my bike to a trapezoid shaped stand, kind of like #13 in the thread but longer and without the lower wiggly bit. It was perpendicular to a wall, with the tall end towards the wall. The diagonal part happened to be exactly parallel with the mid-frame of my bike. Since parallel lines do not intersect, I would have had to move the bike completely inside the stand in order to make a D-lock fit around it, which was precluded by the placement next to the wall. I couldn't put it the other way and attach it to the rear chain stays because it would have jutted out into the path and obstructed pedestrians. Try as I might, I just couldn't make it work. So I just attached it to a metal fence ten yards away.

abyssin 4y ago
And there’s the risk of getting a wheel out true if the slightest pression is applied to your bike horizontally.
contravariant 4y ago
You're supposed to fix the frame to the stand, why are you just attaching the wheel? Wheel "grabbers" (usually just called 'fietsenrek') are pretty common in the Netherlands, especially the 2 level ones, because they allow the greatest number of bikes in a small area. This does have some downsides obviously, but in the Netherlands 'largest number of bikes' tends to outweigh other concerns.
- _dain_ 4y ago
  > You're supposed to fix the frame to the stand, why are you just attaching the wheel? Are we talking about the same kind? I mean these pieces of junk: https://twitter.com/PPushbike/status/1511404994007900160 https://twitter.com/PPushbike/status/1511404994007900160
  - contravariant 4y ago
    That one is positioned weirdly high (and not to the ground) though well within the range of the chain attached to the front (which the bike needs to attach securely since it seems to be missing a horizontal bar)
    - _dain_ 4y ago
      Chains are inferior to D-locks, so a stand that doesn't work with the latter is a failure. Also as mentioned, these kinds can end up damaging the wheel if any torque is applied to the bike and it tips over (wind, other bikes leaning on it). And I think the manufacturer really did intend these to be mounted to walls rather than the floor. The second tweet shows that it's actually hinged, presumably to allow the bike to come in at a non-right angle to the wall, which wouldn't make any sense at all if it were on the ground.
      - contravariant 4y ago
        What the manufacturer designed these for is irrelevant, you asked if it was the one I meant and I indicated how its different. D-locks are inferior to guarded bike sheds so presumably we can rule out all other bike stands as failures as well? You're free to prefer one option over another but if you bring a less versatile lock for your bike you're going to have more difficulty securing it and your trade-offs aren't the same as everyone else's. For what it's worth I've never seen or heard someone get a wheel damaged by these bike stands. I'm kind of curious if it's even realistically possible, any realistic amount of force isn't going to do much more than stretch a few spokes (in most cases temporarily).
- cranekam 4y ago
  > You're supposed to fix the frame to the stand, why are you just attaching the wheel? Because the "wheel grabber" makes it very hard to lock the frame as well as the wheel. About all that is possible without a long wire (which are generally easy to cut and thus inferior to a D-lock) is to get the lock through the rear triangle. This assumes you're able to get the bike in rear wheel first, of course. I'd rather find a fence or lamppost over using a wheel grabber. I get that density is a concern in the Netherlands but it probably isn't outside the local convenience store everywhere else.
  - causality0 4y ago
    generally easy to cut and thus inferior to a D-lock Is that a serious consideration? Jesus, I had no idea the environment in which these were used. I'd be scared to leave my house.
    - unholythree 4y ago
      Where I live it’s probably poorly supervised kids or drug addicts stealing bikes. I’m not generally afraid for my safety but I do fear for my unsecured possessions.
    - cranekam 4y ago
      Yes, definitely. A saw or bolt cutters will go through a wire or cable lock very easily. Just a few weeks ago I came back to my bike to find the bike next to it gone, with a severed cable laying on the floor in its place. The outer diameter of the plastic-coated cable was probably 10mm but the wire itself was likely only 3 or 4mm. It looked like someone had just used a hacksaw on it. I doubt it lasted even a minute.
- seszett 4y ago
  I don't know about the Netherlands, however here in Flanders the two level racks might be common but I think I've never seen a bike on the higher level. They're just used double spaced, with bikes only on the lower hoops. When they're (half-)full people just put their bikes next to the racks.

by _dain_ 4y ago

abyssin 4y ago

And there’s the risk of getting a wheel out true if the slightest pression is applied to your bike horizontally.

contravariant 4y ago

You're supposed to fix the frame to the stand, why are you just attaching the wheel? Wheel "grabbers" (usually just called 'fietsenrek') are pretty common in the Netherlands, especially the 2 level ones, because they allow the greatest number of bikes in a small area. This does have some downsides obviously, but in the Netherlands 'largest number of bikes' tends to outweigh other concerns.

_dain_ 4y ago
> You're supposed to fix the frame to the stand, why are you just attaching the wheel? Are we talking about the same kind? I mean these pieces of junk: https://twitter.com/PPushbike/status/1511404994007900160 https://twitter.com/PPushbike/status/1511404994007900160
- contravariant 4y ago
  That one is positioned weirdly high (and not to the ground) though well within the range of the chain attached to the front (which the bike needs to attach securely since it seems to be missing a horizontal bar)
  - _dain_ 4y ago
    Chains are inferior to D-locks, so a stand that doesn't work with the latter is a failure. Also as mentioned, these kinds can end up damaging the wheel if any torque is applied to the bike and it tips over (wind, other bikes leaning on it). And I think the manufacturer really did intend these to be mounted to walls rather than the floor. The second tweet shows that it's actually hinged, presumably to allow the bike to come in at a non-right angle to the wall, which wouldn't make any sense at all if it were on the ground.
    - contravariant 4y ago
      What the manufacturer designed these for is irrelevant, you asked if it was the one I meant and I indicated how its different. D-locks are inferior to guarded bike sheds so presumably we can rule out all other bike stands as failures as well? You're free to prefer one option over another but if you bring a less versatile lock for your bike you're going to have more difficulty securing it and your trade-offs aren't the same as everyone else's. For what it's worth I've never seen or heard someone get a wheel damaged by these bike stands. I'm kind of curious if it's even realistically possible, any realistic amount of force isn't going to do much more than stretch a few spokes (in most cases temporarily).
cranekam 4y ago
> You're supposed to fix the frame to the stand, why are you just attaching the wheel? Because the "wheel grabber" makes it very hard to lock the frame as well as the wheel. About all that is possible without a long wire (which are generally easy to cut and thus inferior to a D-lock) is to get the lock through the rear triangle. This assumes you're able to get the bike in rear wheel first, of course. I'd rather find a fence or lamppost over using a wheel grabber. I get that density is a concern in the Netherlands but it probably isn't outside the local convenience store everywhere else.
- causality0 4y ago
  generally easy to cut and thus inferior to a D-lock Is that a serious consideration? Jesus, I had no idea the environment in which these were used. I'd be scared to leave my house.
  - unholythree 4y ago
    Where I live it’s probably poorly supervised kids or drug addicts stealing bikes. I’m not generally afraid for my safety but I do fear for my unsecured possessions.
  - cranekam 4y ago
    Yes, definitely. A saw or bolt cutters will go through a wire or cable lock very easily. Just a few weeks ago I came back to my bike to find the bike next to it gone, with a severed cable laying on the floor in its place. The outer diameter of the plastic-coated cable was probably 10mm but the wire itself was likely only 3 or 4mm. It looked like someone had just used a hacksaw on it. I doubt it lasted even a minute.
seszett 4y ago
I don't know about the Netherlands, however here in Flanders the two level racks might be common but I think I've never seen a bike on the higher level. They're just used double spaced, with bikes only on the lower hoops. When they're (half-)full people just put their bikes next to the racks.