4 ms·

So, what, we shouldn't attempt to have privacy protections because some corrupt judge might fine a company that shouldn't have been fined?

scarface74 4y ago
We shouldn’t give the government more power for them to abuse…period.
- paulryanrogers 4y ago
  Better defacto, unelected governments in the form of huge companies with armies of lobbyists and forced arbitration agreements.
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Because of how both the electoral college works and gerrymandering, the elected officials don’t represent the majority. Besides, private companies don’t have the force of law to force people to do anything. Giving the government more power over your freedom is never the answer.
    - paulryanrogers 4y ago
      > Besides, private companies don’t have the force of law to force people to do anything. As more and more consolidation happens I'm not so sure this is still true. If all grocery stores become zero-human Amazon markets and their AI decides your long forgotten, hobby EC2 instance is past due then can you buy food? Rent an apartment? Fly on a plane? Elections in the US need reformed, no doubt. And governments have a monopoly on legal violence. The answer isn't to keep handing the keys to the government over to whomever/whatever has the most money.
      - scarface74 4y ago
        Only 5% of all IT spend is on any cloud provider: https://accelerationeconomy.com/cloud/amazon-shocker-ceo-jassy-says-cloud-less-than-5-of-all-it-spending/ https://accelerationeconomy.com/cloud/amazon-shocker-ceo-jas... The grocery store market is definitely not a monopoly https://www.statista.com/statistics/818602/online-and-offline-grocery-market-share-of-leading-grocery-retailers-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/818602/online-and-offlin... And Whole Foods makes up less than 2% There is definitely not a “tech monopoly” on renting an apartment. On the other hand, the government can and does take away peoples property through both imminent domain and civil forfeiture. The government already controls who can fly and who can’t via “no fly lists” https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/grounded-life-no-fly-list https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/grounded-life-... So no, I have no desire to give government more power.
- thfuran 4y ago
  Should we close down all air traffic control to make sure no air traffic controller ever screws up?
  - scarface74 4y ago
    Can air traffic controllers take away my freedom and my rights?
    - thfuran 4y ago
      I don't understand. You want rights but don't want the government to have any power to enforce them? What should happen when a company does something that you feel violates your rights?
      - scarface74 4y ago
        The government doesn’t “enforce rights”. They take rights away from people. Laws by definition limit what you can do. A company can only “violate my rights” if I choose to use those services. It’s much easier not to for instance use a phone with an operating system controlled by an adTech company than it is to not have to deal with a government. Do you really think a government that always pushes the limit on being a surveillance state cares about your “privacy”?
        jeramey 4y ago
        That’s a very interesting example you choose. I wonder if you’d have a choice of mobile phones today had the US government not exercised its anti-monopoly authority with the Kingsbury Commitment and later the break-up of the Bell System. Prior to 1983, nearly everyone in the US and Canada had to lease their physical telephones (wired and wireless) from Ma Bell, and if you didn’t like the phone Ma Bell gave you, tough luck. Your other choice was to simply not have access to the PSTN.
        scarface74 4y ago

scarface74 4y ago

We shouldn’t give the government more power for them to abuse…period.

paulryanrogers 4y ago
Better defacto, unelected governments in the form of huge companies with armies of lobbyists and forced arbitration agreements.
- scarface74 4y ago
  Because of how both the electoral college works and gerrymandering, the elected officials don’t represent the majority. Besides, private companies don’t have the force of law to force people to do anything. Giving the government more power over your freedom is never the answer.
  - paulryanrogers 4y ago
    > Besides, private companies don’t have the force of law to force people to do anything. As more and more consolidation happens I'm not so sure this is still true. If all grocery stores become zero-human Amazon markets and their AI decides your long forgotten, hobby EC2 instance is past due then can you buy food? Rent an apartment? Fly on a plane? Elections in the US need reformed, no doubt. And governments have a monopoly on legal violence. The answer isn't to keep handing the keys to the government over to whomever/whatever has the most money.
    - scarface74 4y ago
      Only 5% of all IT spend is on any cloud provider: https://accelerationeconomy.com/cloud/amazon-shocker-ceo-jassy-says-cloud-less-than-5-of-all-it-spending/ https://accelerationeconomy.com/cloud/amazon-shocker-ceo-jas... The grocery store market is definitely not a monopoly https://www.statista.com/statistics/818602/online-and-offline-grocery-market-share-of-leading-grocery-retailers-us/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/818602/online-and-offlin... And Whole Foods makes up less than 2% There is definitely not a “tech monopoly” on renting an apartment. On the other hand, the government can and does take away peoples property through both imminent domain and civil forfeiture. The government already controls who can fly and who can’t via “no fly lists” https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/grounded-life-no-fly-list https://www.aclu.org/issues/national-security/grounded-life-... So no, I have no desire to give government more power.
thfuran 4y ago
Should we close down all air traffic control to make sure no air traffic controller ever screws up?
- scarface74 4y ago
  Can air traffic controllers take away my freedom and my rights?
  - thfuran 4y ago
    I don't understand. You want rights but don't want the government to have any power to enforce them? What should happen when a company does something that you feel violates your rights?
    - scarface74 4y ago
      The government doesn’t “enforce rights”. They take rights away from people. Laws by definition limit what you can do. A company can only “violate my rights” if I choose to use those services. It’s much easier not to for instance use a phone with an operating system controlled by an adTech company than it is to not have to deal with a government. Do you really think a government that always pushes the limit on being a surveillance state cares about your “privacy”?
      - jeramey 4y ago
        That’s a very interesting example you choose. I wonder if you’d have a choice of mobile phones today had the US government not exercised its anti-monopoly authority with the Kingsbury Commitment and later the break-up of the Bell System. Prior to 1983, nearly everyone in the US and Canada had to lease their physical telephones (wired and wireless) from Ma Bell, and if you didn’t like the phone Ma Bell gave you, tough luck. Your other choice was to simply not have access to the PSTN.
        scarface74 4y ago