5 ms·

A Letter to D1sc0rd for Not Supporting the Linux Desktop

43 points by ddtaylor 4y ago

obarthelemy 4y ago
Don't feel put upon, frankly they don't support Windows either. Their Electron app is so bad 'or maybe Electron is) that I'm using the web app instead. I actually looked up info on what it was made in that could peg my Core i5 at 99% when idle.
- sp1rit 4y ago
  Couldn't agree more. Using the webapp with a chromium-based browser is such a better experience (working screen-share, hw-accel, etc.) I couldn't imagine going back. And especially with chromiums --app flag (I just have a .desktop file that Execs `flatpak run com.github.Eloston.UngoogledChromium --app=https://discordapp.com/channels/@me https://discordapp.com/channels/@me --enable-features=UseOzonePlatform --ozone-platform=wayland`) it really feels like an "app" experience (exception being, that pressing on links in chat opens them in a new chromium window and not firefox).
smoldesu 4y ago
> I would also like to ask Discord to maintain the Discord Flatpak. Since the Steam Deck uses Flathub by default, having official support on Flathub would be a great huge step for Discord and the Linux community. Hah, every single one of these "why doesn't $PROGRAM run on my system???" articles seem to be the same Trojan horse for Flatpak and Wayland support. Here's a thought: if sandboxing and stability matter so much to you, why not use the Discord Snap? I'm really sick and tired of this. The GNOME maintainers keep shooting themselves in the foot with insane requests ("everyone, please switch to our New Competing Standard, Flatpak!"), head-scratching regressions ("moving forward, we will not be supporting themes/shell extensions/legacy display servers/AppIndicators/your hardware/etc.") and worst of all, development cycles so slow they could bore a sloth. You want people to get onboard with your tech? Build something. Coupling technology like Bubblewrap to Flatpak or Mutter and Adwaita to GNOME is what makes people cautious of supporting these kinds of transitions. The real reason Discord sucks on this person's desktop is because neither Wayland nor Flatpak is the future. There is no "transition" to these technologies. GNOME is being different for the sake of being different, and complaining when everyone else doesn't rally behind them.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- ajvs 4y ago
  Sandboxing is important for the desktop security. The choices are between Flatpak and Snap for desktop Linux. Snap requires lock-in to Canonical's proprietary cloud app store, whereas Flatpak you can link to multiple app stores simultaneously. It's obvious which standard is best for consumers.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    I agree. Flatpak is a packaging technology though, not a sandboxing one: if privacy/security was the primary concern, then Bubblewrap would be shipped as a separate program for any software to run in, not just Flatpaks.
- shandor 4y ago
  > neither Wayland nor Flatpak is the future Flatpak I can see, but Wayland? I've been under the impression that X is going the way of the dodo in any case (maintainers becoming scarce etc.), and that Wayland has been (and is) the only real alternative that is being worked on. Now, this is just my (very much non-expert) understanding on the matter, so if you have anything more substantial to add (or link me to) for further reading it would be much appreciated.
  - smoldesu 4y ago
    I mean, see for yourself: only 3 DEs actually support Wayland, the rest are WONTFIX or have too much to port to wlroots. GNOME Mutter has the only complete Wayland implimentation anyways, if 10 years go by and 1 DE has adopted you as default, you've probably failed.
- viraptor 4y ago
  > why not use the Discord Snap? You even quoted the answer yourself: > Since the Steam Deck uses Flathub by default
kgraves 4y ago
Just use Ripcord? [0] It actually works well and supports slack as well for those who don't like Electron. [0] https://cancel.fm/ripcord/ https://cancel.fm/ripcord/
- freemint 4y ago
  Ripcord can cause your account to banned irrestoribly and prevent the phone number associated being used for verification for months. The maintainer is aware of this but does not warn users of this risk at all. Using a third party client is considered self botting and against the TOS. This part of the TOS are enforced.
  - kgraves 4y ago
    I've used Ripcord for over 2 years and never noticed this at all. Besides, the fact that Ripcord has slack support is a definite plus IMO.
    - freemint 4y ago
      I had an account permanently banned which was phone number verified. I couldn't use the phone number to verify a new account for multiple months.
    - aojdwhsd 4y ago
      I had a longstanding account force me to verify with a phone number not long after I began using Ripcord (it wasn't banned, though, and I stopped using Ripcord after this happened)
    - ev1 4y ago
      I was permanently banned within a week of using Ripcord, with no other odd activity. I'm wondering if there are some lag times or picking a bad start point where Ripcord was slightly out of sync with newly released API calls or similar. Unappealable, of course.
  - unicornporn 4y ago
    > Using a third party client is considered self botting and against the TOS. This part of the TOS are enforced. And this is what open source projcts use as their official means of communication and coordination... When did programmers become so gullible?
rvz 4y ago
This is my whole point of 'defining Linux support' where the chronic inconsistency and mess that the Linux Desktop has created with competing system components conflict with each other and certain apps and this cannot be fixed. Hence why you can't support all the Linux users, 100% of the time. Not even Discord can either. Since you get the complaining Linux user on an exotic distro with strange system-specific requests like supporting Wayland, XDG, Flakpak, GNOME, PipeWire, etc or not moving to Xorg which the devs have to hunt for the bugs all over the OS stack, but could end up only affecting that one user. This is where developers draw the line and slap UNSUPPORTED on whatever exotic Linux distro you are using and 'letters' or 'requests' like this get ignored. Due to that, this blog post explains why companies like Discord prioritise requests on predictable and consistent OSes, like Windows and Mac.
- DarylZero 4y ago
  All they need to do is open the protocol. But they want to keep everything under their ¢ontrol. The solution is not to ask for support but to boycott this nonsense completely.
- cmeacham98 4y ago
  The Steam Deck is an "exotic distro" and issues for it only affect "one user"? You are trolling, right?
  - rvz 4y ago
    No where in my sentence did I mention the Steam Deck. My point spans beyond the Steam Deck and on to 'Linux Desktop' support in general. Assuming you have read the article, it has already told us that Discord does not care to support the Linux Desktop more than Windows or Mac and would rather keep it outdated and working on most distros than to update everything and it ends up breaking on your favourite distro. No company would seriously cater their resources to fully supporting an infinite about of distros to satisfy a small minority of non-paying users. Anyone expecting this is frankly trolling and know they cannot define Linux support themselves and writing such letters of 'free support' like this one is also futile.
celdon25 4y ago
Why spell it as D1sc0rd in the title when the linked article doesn't even do that? That will interfere with HN search.
- type0 4y ago
  H4X0r L33t speak?!
- fivre 4y ago
  For some reason op copied the title from an /r/linux submission, where apparently there are aggressive automod settings still in place from a former opinionated mod: https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/v0g4ef/a_letter_to_d1sc0rd_for_not_supporting_the_linux/iag6pe8/ https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/v0g4ef/a_letter_to_d...
  - PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
    "I'll have to check automod’s regex. We want to remove Discord invites as people do spam non-topical invites across many subreddits, but it should block based on URL, not the word." (from the reddit thread)
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
nemetroid 4y ago
The Chrome 91 branch, which (according to the article) the client is built upon, was released in May last year. That’s not great… …but not terrible either. I trust that, in due time, Discord will update to a newer version. As for Flatpak… Fine by me, but don’t make it the only option, as suggested by this article. Some of us prefer having an up-to-date operating system with shims to support software that require older libraries, rather than the other way around.
- Avamander 4y ago
  The amount of vulnerabilities in Chrome so old is immense, it's very much terrible.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  Very much agree on the Flatpak side of things. GNOME has been using it to promotw their own EEE philosophy, which is why I avoid it like the plague.
  - phendrenad2 4y ago
    I guess by EEE you mean GNOME is pushing for apps to use Flatpak, then once they do, pushing for the Flatpak version to be the main (or only) version. I don't think that really fits the EEE model because any Linux distro (or even Mac or Windows or BSD) can ship Flatpak.
MrStonedOne 4y ago
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
phendrenad2 4y ago
> Discord is popular among the Linux desktop community This is offered without proof. Is this actually true, or just what the author perceives?
- bradwood 4y ago
  Perception I expect. Discord is likely popular with gamers and crypto bros. I know a lot of Linux desktop users who aren't interested (hardly a representative sample tho)
  - tinus_hn 4y ago
    Discord has mostly replaced irc, except for open source purist communities.
tmdh 4y ago
The way to get Discord's attention is to exploit one of the CVEs and then report to them.

43 points by ddtaylor 4y ago

Don't feel put upon, frankly they don't support Windows either. Their Electron app is so bad 'or maybe Electron is) that I'm using the web app instead. I actually looked up info on what it was made in that could peg my Core i5 at 99% when idle.

sp1rit 4y ago
Couldn't agree more. Using the webapp with a chromium-based browser is such a better experience (working screen-share, hw-accel, etc.) I couldn't imagine going back. And especially with chromiums --app flag (I just have a .desktop file that Execs `flatpak run com.github.Eloston.UngoogledChromium --app=https://discordapp.com/channels/@me https://discordapp.com/channels/@me --enable-features=UseOzonePlatform --ozone-platform=wayland`) it really feels like an "app" experience (exception being, that pressing on links in chat opens them in a new chromium window and not firefox).

smoldesu 4y ago

> I would also like to ask Discord to maintain the Discord Flatpak. Since the Steam Deck uses Flathub by default, having official support on Flathub would be a great huge step for Discord and the Linux community. Hah, every single one of these "why doesn't $PROGRAM run on my system???" articles seem to be the same Trojan horse for Flatpak and Wayland support. Here's a thought: if sandboxing and stability matter so much to you, why not use the Discord Snap? I'm really sick and tired of this. The GNOME maintainers keep shooting themselves in the foot with insane requests ("everyone, please switch to our New Competing Standard, Flatpak!"), head-scratching regressions ("moving forward, we will not be supporting themes/shell extensions/legacy display servers/AppIndicators/your hardware/etc.") and worst of all, development cycles so slow they could bore a sloth. You want people to get onboard with your tech? Build something. Coupling technology like Bubblewrap to Flatpak or Mutter and Adwaita to GNOME is what makes people cautious of supporting these kinds of transitions. The real reason Discord sucks on this person's desktop is because neither Wayland nor Flatpak is the future. There is no "transition" to these technologies. GNOME is being different for the sake of being different, and complaining when everyone else doesn't rally behind them.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
ajvs 4y ago
Sandboxing is important for the desktop security. The choices are between Flatpak and Snap for desktop Linux. Snap requires lock-in to Canonical's proprietary cloud app store, whereas Flatpak you can link to multiple app stores simultaneously. It's obvious which standard is best for consumers.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I agree. Flatpak is a packaging technology though, not a sandboxing one: if privacy/security was the primary concern, then Bubblewrap would be shipped as a separate program for any software to run in, not just Flatpaks.
shandor 4y ago
> neither Wayland nor Flatpak is the future Flatpak I can see, but Wayland? I've been under the impression that X is going the way of the dodo in any case (maintainers becoming scarce etc.), and that Wayland has been (and is) the only real alternative that is being worked on. Now, this is just my (very much non-expert) understanding on the matter, so if you have anything more substantial to add (or link me to) for further reading it would be much appreciated.
- smoldesu 4y ago
  I mean, see for yourself: only 3 DEs actually support Wayland, the rest are WONTFIX or have too much to port to wlroots. GNOME Mutter has the only complete Wayland implimentation anyways, if 10 years go by and 1 DE has adopted you as default, you've probably failed.
viraptor 4y ago
> why not use the Discord Snap? You even quoted the answer yourself: > Since the Steam Deck uses Flathub by default

kgraves 4y ago

Just use Ripcord? [0] It actually works well and supports slack as well for those who don't like Electron. [0] https://cancel.fm/ripcord/ https://cancel.fm/ripcord/

freemint 4y ago
Ripcord can cause your account to banned irrestoribly and prevent the phone number associated being used for verification for months. The maintainer is aware of this but does not warn users of this risk at all. Using a third party client is considered self botting and against the TOS. This part of the TOS are enforced.
- kgraves 4y ago
  I've used Ripcord for over 2 years and never noticed this at all. Besides, the fact that Ripcord has slack support is a definite plus IMO.
  - freemint 4y ago
    I had an account permanently banned which was phone number verified. I couldn't use the phone number to verify a new account for multiple months.
  - aojdwhsd 4y ago
    I had a longstanding account force me to verify with a phone number not long after I began using Ripcord (it wasn't banned, though, and I stopped using Ripcord after this happened)
  - ev1 4y ago
    I was permanently banned within a week of using Ripcord, with no other odd activity. I'm wondering if there are some lag times or picking a bad start point where Ripcord was slightly out of sync with newly released API calls or similar. Unappealable, of course.
- unicornporn 4y ago
  > Using a third party client is considered self botting and against the TOS. This part of the TOS are enforced. And this is what open source projcts use as their official means of communication and coordination... When did programmers become so gullible?

rvz 4y ago

This is my whole point of 'defining Linux support' where the chronic inconsistency and mess that the Linux Desktop has created with competing system components conflict with each other and certain apps and this cannot be fixed. Hence why you can't support all the Linux users, 100% of the time. Not even Discord can either. Since you get the complaining Linux user on an exotic distro with strange system-specific requests like supporting Wayland, XDG, Flakpak, GNOME, PipeWire, etc or not moving to Xorg which the devs have to hunt for the bugs all over the OS stack, but could end up only affecting that one user. This is where developers draw the line and slap UNSUPPORTED on whatever exotic Linux distro you are using and 'letters' or 'requests' like this get ignored. Due to that, this blog post explains why companies like Discord prioritise requests on predictable and consistent OSes, like Windows and Mac.

DarylZero 4y ago
All they need to do is open the protocol. But they want to keep everything under their ¢ontrol. The solution is not to ask for support but to boycott this nonsense completely.
cmeacham98 4y ago
The Steam Deck is an "exotic distro" and issues for it only affect "one user"? You are trolling, right?
- rvz 4y ago
  No where in my sentence did I mention the Steam Deck. My point spans beyond the Steam Deck and on to 'Linux Desktop' support in general. Assuming you have read the article, it has already told us that Discord does not care to support the Linux Desktop more than Windows or Mac and would rather keep it outdated and working on most distros than to update everything and it ends up breaking on your favourite distro. No company would seriously cater their resources to fully supporting an infinite about of distros to satisfy a small minority of non-paying users. Anyone expecting this is frankly trolling and know they cannot define Linux support themselves and writing such letters of 'free support' like this one is also futile.

celdon25 4y ago

Why spell it as D1sc0rd in the title when the linked article doesn't even do that? That will interfere with HN search.

type0 4y ago
H4X0r L33t speak?!
fivre 4y ago
For some reason op copied the title from an /r/linux submission, where apparently there are aggressive automod settings still in place from a former opinionated mod: https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/v0g4ef/a_letter_to_d1sc0rd_for_not_supporting_the_linux/iag6pe8/ https://old.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/v0g4ef/a_letter_to_d...
- PaulDavisThe1st 4y ago
  "I'll have to check automod’s regex. We want to remove Discord invites as people do spam non-topical invites across many subreddits, but it should block based on URL, not the word." (from the reddit thread)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

nemetroid 4y ago

The Chrome 91 branch, which (according to the article) the client is built upon, was released in May last year. That’s not great… …but not terrible either. I trust that, in due time, Discord will update to a newer version. As for Flatpak… Fine by me, but don’t make it the only option, as suggested by this article. Some of us prefer having an up-to-date operating system with shims to support software that require older libraries, rather than the other way around.

Avamander 4y ago
The amount of vulnerabilities in Chrome so old is immense, it's very much terrible.
smoldesu 4y ago
Very much agree on the Flatpak side of things. GNOME has been using it to promotw their own EEE philosophy, which is why I avoid it like the plague.
- phendrenad2 4y ago
  I guess by EEE you mean GNOME is pushing for apps to use Flatpak, then once they do, pushing for the Flatpak version to be the main (or only) version. I don't think that really fits the EEE model because any Linux distro (or even Mac or Windows or BSD) can ship Flatpak.

MrStonedOne 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

phendrenad2 4y ago

> Discord is popular among the Linux desktop community This is offered without proof. Is this actually true, or just what the author perceives?

bradwood 4y ago
Perception I expect. Discord is likely popular with gamers and crypto bros. I know a lot of Linux desktop users who aren't interested (hardly a representative sample tho)
- tinus_hn 4y ago
  Discord has mostly replaced irc, except for open source purist communities.

tmdh 4y ago

The way to get Discord's attention is to exploit one of the CVEs and then report to them.