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> Over the last three months, Russia's invasion of Ukraine has shocked agricultural markets Did Washington's illegal invasions of Iraq, Libya, or Syria shock g

> Over the last three months, Russia's invasion of Ukraine has shocked agricultural markets Did Washington's illegal invasions of Iraq, Libya, or Syria shock global energy and food markets, leading to global crises? No, because a large part of the global economy did not attempt to cut off USA from the global economy following those blatant violations of sovereignty. This real lede is buried deep in the article. The fact is that the current economic crisis could be partially mitigated by the West undoing its economic punitive measures intended to destabilize Russia and force regime change. While Russia is arguably engaging in a military crisis of choice, Washington (and Brussels) are engaging the world in an economic crisis of choice; primarily because a unaccountable cabal of aging Cold War neocons are fixated on overthrowing Vladimir Putin "at any cost". Anyways, most of the analysis is correct and useful, but it always bugs me when the causality is obfuscated in the name of pushing a political agenda.

enraged_camel 4y ago
>> Did Washington's illegal invasions of Iraq, Libya, or Syria shock global energy and food markets, leading to global crises? Not a good comparison in terms of food. Ukraine produces 6% of the world's wheat. Russia produces 17%. The former is unable to export its stockpiles due to the Black Sea blockade by the latter, and the latter is not going to be exporting what it produces because they recognize that they can use it as leverage.
- thriftwy 4y ago
  Russia and Ukraine got very little from being major food exporters. For Russia it meant that wheat profits are just a dent of oil&gas profits, and for Ukraine it meant perennial poverty and international aid seeking. Both were getting scolded for slacking economically. If both countries were to be compensated 'fairly' for the wheat, maybe there would be no war right now. Food prices may never 'recover' to those unsustainable levels.
  - lotusmars 4y ago
    > If both countries were to be compensated 'fairly' for the wheat, maybe there would be no war right now. Wow. Now this is the Putin apologist take I've never heard before, and I've heard a lot of them watching Russian TV.
    - thriftwy 4y ago
      Ukraine has failed to become economically solvent - it did not even grow to 1991 levels. So it had to cling to somebody else and eventually it tore apart (in 2014)
      - lotusmars 4y ago
        Ukraine did not "tore apart" in 2014. Putin's army and mercenaries invaded its eastern regions, downed a passenger jet, weaponized criminal gangs, occupied cities and turned them into criminal neo-Stalinist enclaves with executions and torture. He did it to teach Ukrainians a lesson after they've overthrown a corrupt pro-Putin president who built himself outrageously lavish palaces with golden toilets and private zoos.[1] In the end Yanukovich blocked Ukraine's integration with EU which sparked mass protests. Yanukovich or FSB snipers opened fire on protesters and he fled the country to Russia on a private jet. [1] https://theworld.org/stories/2014-02-22/26-things-found-yanukovychs-compound-made-him-look-even-worse https://theworld.org/stories/2014-02-22/26-things-found-yanu...
        thriftwy 4y ago
        Ukraine's eastern regions did not want to be a part of post-Euromaidan Ukraine, and one of the reasons is the poverty of Ukraine. It's not like Putin is holding crimeans at a gunpoint for 8 years.
- pphysch 4y ago
  Russia created humanitarian corridors for Ukraine to get wheat out. That 6% will be impacted either way, but is not going to 0%. Of course Iraq is not a major food exporter. You didn't explain why major global energy crises didn't start after Washington illegally invaded major producers. The bottom line: this is an economic crisis of Washington's designs.
guerrilla 4y ago
I tend to agree but I want to add some reasons. First is that it's clearly ineffective. As much propaganda as we hear, Russia's still getting what it wants. Russia pulled out of most of the country the day after Zelensky announced they might not go in NATO after all [1]. The south (which is strategic to Russia - see my other comment[2]) is theirs. The ruble is better than it was before the war even with lifted capital controls and lowered interest rates. Most Russians don't seem to be too effected either. Second, even if it were effective, it seems like somewhat of a major contradiction to claim that the Russian people are powerless victims of a violent authoritarian regime while at the same time expecting them to go to war with their overclass in order to stop this after starving them into it. It also ignores the fact that they did not do so in nearly a century of brutal repression and, at times, starvation. Are we supposed to wait another 69 years for sanctions to take effect, recalling that the fall of the USSR wasn't even violent regime change or capitulation but rather a decision that benefited the overclass itself? 1. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/zelensky-ukraine-conflict-nato-russia-b2037181.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/zelensky-ukr... 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31549358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31549358
- Viliam1234 4y ago
  > As much propaganda as we hear, Russia's still getting what it wants. Russia pulled out of most of the country the day after Zelensky announced they might not go in NATO after all. This is Russian propaganda. First, NATO does not accept new members while they are in the middle of a military conflict. And Russia is occupying parts of Ukraine since 2014. So it's not like Zelensky's words changed something; he just commented on the obvious. Second, nope, Russia absolutely didn't get what Putin wants. You may want to read his essay "On the historical units of Russians and Ukrainians". He wants the entire Ukraine to become a part of Russia. In reality, the Russian army was near Kiev trying to capture it, failed, was pushed back. To save face, Putin now says that this is exactly what he wanted. Except, yesterday he said something different, and no doubt tomorrow he will say something different again.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    > This is Russian propaganda. Oh are Zelensky and The Independent Russian propaganda now? [1] Sorry, I can't keep up with you people. What about The Hill and AP[2]? > Second, nope, Russia absolutely didn't get what Putin wants. You may want to read his essay "On the historical units of Russians and Ukrainians". He wants the entire Ukraine to become a part of Russia. So now you buy into Russian propaganda instead of political science. Interesting. > In reality, the Russian army was near Kiev trying to capture it, failed, was pushed back. To save face, Putin now says that this is exactly what he wanted. Except, yesterday he said something different, and no doubt tomorrow he will say something different again. Sure thing, buddy, just coincidentally the day after Zelensky announced Ukraine won't go in NATO. 1. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/zelensky-ukraine-conflict-nato-russia-b2037181.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/zelensky-ukr... 2. https://thehill.com/policy/international/598335-zelensky-concedes-ukraine-unlikely-to-join-nato-seeks-security/ https://thehill.com/policy/international/598335-zelensky-con...

enraged_camel 4y ago

>> Did Washington's illegal invasions of Iraq, Libya, or Syria shock global energy and food markets, leading to global crises? Not a good comparison in terms of food. Ukraine produces 6% of the world's wheat. Russia produces 17%. The former is unable to export its stockpiles due to the Black Sea blockade by the latter, and the latter is not going to be exporting what it produces because they recognize that they can use it as leverage.

thriftwy 4y ago
Russia and Ukraine got very little from being major food exporters. For Russia it meant that wheat profits are just a dent of oil&gas profits, and for Ukraine it meant perennial poverty and international aid seeking. Both were getting scolded for slacking economically. If both countries were to be compensated 'fairly' for the wheat, maybe there would be no war right now. Food prices may never 'recover' to those unsustainable levels.
- lotusmars 4y ago
  > If both countries were to be compensated 'fairly' for the wheat, maybe there would be no war right now. Wow. Now this is the Putin apologist take I've never heard before, and I've heard a lot of them watching Russian TV.
  - thriftwy 4y ago
    Ukraine has failed to become economically solvent - it did not even grow to 1991 levels. So it had to cling to somebody else and eventually it tore apart (in 2014)
    - lotusmars 4y ago
      Ukraine did not "tore apart" in 2014. Putin's army and mercenaries invaded its eastern regions, downed a passenger jet, weaponized criminal gangs, occupied cities and turned them into criminal neo-Stalinist enclaves with executions and torture. He did it to teach Ukrainians a lesson after they've overthrown a corrupt pro-Putin president who built himself outrageously lavish palaces with golden toilets and private zoos.[1] In the end Yanukovich blocked Ukraine's integration with EU which sparked mass protests. Yanukovich or FSB snipers opened fire on protesters and he fled the country to Russia on a private jet. [1] https://theworld.org/stories/2014-02-22/26-things-found-yanukovychs-compound-made-him-look-even-worse https://theworld.org/stories/2014-02-22/26-things-found-yanu...
      - thriftwy 4y ago
        Ukraine's eastern regions did not want to be a part of post-Euromaidan Ukraine, and one of the reasons is the poverty of Ukraine. It's not like Putin is holding crimeans at a gunpoint for 8 years.
pphysch 4y ago
Russia created humanitarian corridors for Ukraine to get wheat out. That 6% will be impacted either way, but is not going to 0%. Of course Iraq is not a major food exporter. You didn't explain why major global energy crises didn't start after Washington illegally invaded major producers. The bottom line: this is an economic crisis of Washington's designs.

guerrilla 4y ago

I tend to agree but I want to add some reasons. First is that it's clearly ineffective. As much propaganda as we hear, Russia's still getting what it wants. Russia pulled out of most of the country the day after Zelensky announced they might not go in NATO after all [1]. The south (which is strategic to Russia - see my other comment[2]) is theirs. The ruble is better than it was before the war even with lifted capital controls and lowered interest rates. Most Russians don't seem to be too effected either. Second, even if it were effective, it seems like somewhat of a major contradiction to claim that the Russian people are powerless victims of a violent authoritarian regime while at the same time expecting them to go to war with their overclass in order to stop this after starving them into it. It also ignores the fact that they did not do so in nearly a century of brutal repression and, at times, starvation. Are we supposed to wait another 69 years for sanctions to take effect, recalling that the fall of the USSR wasn't even violent regime change or capitulation but rather a decision that benefited the overclass itself? 1. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/zelensky-ukraine-conflict-nato-russia-b2037181.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/zelensky-ukr... 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31549358 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31549358

Viliam1234 4y ago
> As much propaganda as we hear, Russia's still getting what it wants. Russia pulled out of most of the country the day after Zelensky announced they might not go in NATO after all. This is Russian propaganda. First, NATO does not accept new members while they are in the middle of a military conflict. And Russia is occupying parts of Ukraine since 2014. So it's not like Zelensky's words changed something; he just commented on the obvious. Second, nope, Russia absolutely didn't get what Putin wants. You may want to read his essay "On the historical units of Russians and Ukrainians". He wants the entire Ukraine to become a part of Russia. In reality, the Russian army was near Kiev trying to capture it, failed, was pushed back. To save face, Putin now says that this is exactly what he wanted. Except, yesterday he said something different, and no doubt tomorrow he will say something different again.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  > This is Russian propaganda. Oh are Zelensky and The Independent Russian propaganda now? [1] Sorry, I can't keep up with you people. What about The Hill and AP[2]? > Second, nope, Russia absolutely didn't get what Putin wants. You may want to read his essay "On the historical units of Russians and Ukrainians". He wants the entire Ukraine to become a part of Russia. So now you buy into Russian propaganda instead of political science. Interesting. > In reality, the Russian army was near Kiev trying to capture it, failed, was pushed back. To save face, Putin now says that this is exactly what he wanted. Except, yesterday he said something different, and no doubt tomorrow he will say something different again. Sure thing, buddy, just coincidentally the day after Zelensky announced Ukraine won't go in NATO. 1. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/zelensky-ukraine-conflict-nato-russia-b2037181.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/zelensky-ukr... 2. https://thehill.com/policy/international/598335-zelensky-concedes-ukraine-unlikely-to-join-nato-seeks-security/ https://thehill.com/policy/international/598335-zelensky-con...