7 ms·

> All we need is to sink down russian ships in Black sea. Yeah, I'm sure nuclear war will be good for food pirces.

tomjen3 4y ago
- guerrilla 4y ago
fractallyte 4y ago
Nato could have marched in at the beginning, with the justification that Russian aggression in Ukraine was a security threat to Europe. Russians only respect strength. The situation could have been escalated much further without tipping over into nuclear exchange. Nato failed, and now we have a multitude of security issues.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  NATO is a defense pact. It only acts when its members are attacked.
  - fractallyte 4y ago
    Good point! Then replace 'Nato' with 'Europe'. Sadly, Germany, Austria, and Hungary have forgotten just how bad Russians are. I wonder what the oldest generation (especially women) think of the current crisis.
lotusmars 4y ago
Putin will always push further by saying "cave in to my demands or I'll nuke you". Most of it is bluff. Which like any bluff is scary to call bluff. Russian army is in corrupt disarray and even tacticals nukes are not guranteed to work. He will probably be disobeyed by his staff. Speaking of ships, the flaghsip of Black Sea Fleet Moskva was sunk by Ukrainians. Putin was reportedly enraged but didn't do a thing besides all atrocities he's already doing. Russian media covered it up for domestic audience. They can sink all of them. He won't nuke anyone. He knows it's a bet on his system he can not afford.
- guerrilla 4y ago
  > Most of it is bluff. You don't know that and I don't want to risk that. Don't be arrogant. Everyone said his buildup on Ukraine a bluff. It wasn't. I don't think we should ever trust people like you again. > Russian army is in corrupt disarray and even tacticals nukes are not guranteed to work. He will probably be disobeyed by his staff. Yet still winning... > Speaking of ships, the flaghsip of Black Sea Fleet Moskva was sunk by Ukrainians. Putin was reportedly enraged but didn't do a thing besides all atrocities he's already doing. Russian media covered it up for domestic audience. Ukraine doing that and the US doing that are drastically different. If you don't understand that then you're definitely not worth listening to on this.
  - lotusmars 4y ago
    > Yet still winning.. Because Germans do not provide weapons they've promised. In fact if they drag their feet more, war may change its course. > Ukraine doing that and the US doing that are drastically different Of course Ukrainians can do that if they're equipped with enough modern weapons and intelligence. The problem is stated above. Germans do not provide weapons, Biden is slow to push them. Additionally because of its energy and political dependence on Russia Germany is pushing Ukraine to surrender territory (along with wheat and ports) to Russia. We don't need direct US involvement, we need strong and decisive leadership.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      I think it's complicated why they're not winning. Russia has a lot of resources, despite any incompetence. The US is not providing targeting data, nor long range weapons and the US doesn't want Ukraine striking inside of Russia (DoD just said so in the FT yesterday.) There's also the problem with sanctions not being very effective and having serious blowback globally making it difficult to apply more sanctions (EU disagreement on new sanctions was also in the FT yesterday.) I'm sure there are many other reasons we don't even know about... It's not easy.
  - glogla 4y ago
    > You don't know that and I don't want to risk that. Don't be arrogant. Everyone said his buildup on Ukraine a bluff. It wasn't. I don't think we should ever trust people like you again. No, most Western intelligence services were saying the invasion is going to happen. It was Putin-supporters like you, who claimed that it is Western warmongering and nothing will happen.
redisman 4y ago
There’s also submarines
glogla 4y ago
If that happens, so be it. But the Russians are bullies and cowards. They will not dare touch anything NATO. Also, the whole Black Sea Fleet is in hiding behind Crimea ever since Ukraine showed Neptune missiles work well, and got bunch of Harpoons to back it up.
- gruez 4y ago
  > If that happens, so be it. Easy for you to say (presumably either because you're not in danger of getting nuked, or don't care about getting nuked), but I doubt most people hold that view.

guerrilla 4y ago

Nato could have marched in at the beginning, with the justification that Russian aggression in Ukraine was a security threat to Europe. Russians only respect strength. The situation could have been escalated much further without tipping over into nuclear exchange. Nato failed, and now we have a multitude of security issues.

kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
NATO is a defense pact. It only acts when its members are attacked.
- fractallyte 4y ago
  Good point! Then replace 'Nato' with 'Europe'. Sadly, Germany, Austria, and Hungary have forgotten just how bad Russians are. I wonder what the oldest generation (especially women) think of the current crisis.

lotusmars 4y ago

Putin will always push further by saying "cave in to my demands or I'll nuke you". Most of it is bluff. Which like any bluff is scary to call bluff. Russian army is in corrupt disarray and even tacticals nukes are not guranteed to work. He will probably be disobeyed by his staff. Speaking of ships, the flaghsip of Black Sea Fleet Moskva was sunk by Ukrainians. Putin was reportedly enraged but didn't do a thing besides all atrocities he's already doing. Russian media covered it up for domestic audience. They can sink all of them. He won't nuke anyone. He knows it's a bet on his system he can not afford.

guerrilla 4y ago
> Most of it is bluff. You don't know that and I don't want to risk that. Don't be arrogant. Everyone said his buildup on Ukraine a bluff. It wasn't. I don't think we should ever trust people like you again. > Russian army is in corrupt disarray and even tacticals nukes are not guranteed to work. He will probably be disobeyed by his staff. Yet still winning... > Speaking of ships, the flaghsip of Black Sea Fleet Moskva was sunk by Ukrainians. Putin was reportedly enraged but didn't do a thing besides all atrocities he's already doing. Russian media covered it up for domestic audience. Ukraine doing that and the US doing that are drastically different. If you don't understand that then you're definitely not worth listening to on this.
- lotusmars 4y ago
  > Yet still winning.. Because Germans do not provide weapons they've promised. In fact if they drag their feet more, war may change its course. > Ukraine doing that and the US doing that are drastically different Of course Ukrainians can do that if they're equipped with enough modern weapons and intelligence. The problem is stated above. Germans do not provide weapons, Biden is slow to push them. Additionally because of its energy and political dependence on Russia Germany is pushing Ukraine to surrender territory (along with wheat and ports) to Russia. We don't need direct US involvement, we need strong and decisive leadership.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    I think it's complicated why they're not winning. Russia has a lot of resources, despite any incompetence. The US is not providing targeting data, nor long range weapons and the US doesn't want Ukraine striking inside of Russia (DoD just said so in the FT yesterday.) There's also the problem with sanctions not being very effective and having serious blowback globally making it difficult to apply more sanctions (EU disagreement on new sanctions was also in the FT yesterday.) I'm sure there are many other reasons we don't even know about... It's not easy.
- glogla 4y ago
  > You don't know that and I don't want to risk that. Don't be arrogant. Everyone said his buildup on Ukraine a bluff. It wasn't. I don't think we should ever trust people like you again. No, most Western intelligence services were saying the invasion is going to happen. It was Putin-supporters like you, who claimed that it is Western warmongering and nothing will happen.

redisman 4y ago

There’s also submarines

glogla 4y ago

If that happens, so be it. But the Russians are bullies and cowards. They will not dare touch anything NATO. Also, the whole Black Sea Fleet is in hiding behind Crimea ever since Ukraine showed Neptune missiles work well, and got bunch of Harpoons to back it up.

gruez 4y ago
> If that happens, so be it. Easy for you to say (presumably either because you're not in danger of getting nuked, or don't care about getting nuked), but I doubt most people hold that view.