4 ms·

Plese don't spread Russian propaganda. Graham Philips worked a token "pro-Putin Westerner" on RT and Zvezda, which is literally Russian army's TV channel. He's

Plese don't spread Russian propaganda. Graham Philips worked a token "pro-Putin Westerner" on RT and Zvezda, which is literally Russian army's TV channel. He's as shilly as it gets.

ImHereToVote 4y ago
Yeah, I guess all those ethnic Russians that live in Mariupol are all payed actors. And those concrete buildings that are all in actuality flattened. Elaborate actors, the whole lot.
- lotusmars 4y ago
  Yep, saying this as a Russian, Russian media will show you a small part of the city with a staged crowd carrying Russian flags and tell you it's the whole city. They've done it for years. It's a shame some people in the West are fooled by these cynical lies. For others reading it, just google areal videos of Mariupol from The Guardian or BBC. It's shocking how West allowed this to happen in 21st century.
  - ziml77 4y ago
    What's a shame is that people are so distrustful of the news and government here that they think that anything that says the opposite of what they hear from those sources must be the actual truth.
    - guerrilla 4y ago
      It is a shame. It's some kind of good guy fallacy. Sometimes there just isn't one and everyone is lying to you about everything.
    - lotusmars 4y ago
      RT was actually grown by Kremlin as a brand that "tells truth your government wants to hide". Conspriacy theories and Oliver Stone interviews interspersed with footage of Kremlin-backed European extremists protesting and pepper-sprayed. Thank God, they lacked subtlety and were not suave enough to build this vision. Now they're taking a second shot at it by spinning off its reporters and affilates as "independent bloggers" Also Kremlin's psyops campaigns on social media are never as explicit as "Putin good". They're more like "while Russia is doing bad things in Ukraine, I am an American and I am ashamed of Iraq/treatment of black people/Arab Springs/NATO enlargement". The person writing sits in St. Petersburg suburbs, is paid $600 per month and takes a shuttle bus to his depressive town every night. But it's enough to spark a thread on Reddit.
- 5e92cb50239222b 4y ago
  Easily. I wouldn't put it past Putin to bus in the crowd from Russia just for this specific occasion. They've been doing it for years, why not again? Just like they film Putin's meetups with "factory workers" or "wounded soldiers". If you follow the news for long enough, the faces of those "soldiers", "workers", and "miners" start repeating.
  - lotusmars 4y ago
    Absolutely. They've been doing it a lot pre-war. When protests erupted and were crushed in Moscow and in major Russian cities Putin's media scrambled to show that "regular hard working people oppose gay rich Muscovite hipsters who sold their country". A hilarious example was when they even staged a "worker" from Uralvagonzavod (a major tank factory) before Putin who promised to "gather guys and show them"[1]. Of course PR director for the factory was a famous Putin's media manager Alexey Zharich. They staged tons of provocations at protests to film it and show on repeat on TV. RT and Russian state media used the same tactics after 2014 occupation. While staged and fake this propaganda works if you show it 24/7 on TV. We were shoved it down our throats for years and now they feed it to the West. [1] https://newtimes.ru/articles/detail/49031/ https://newtimes.ru/articles/detail/49031/
h2odragon 4y ago
All that's available form "official" sources is propaganda; might as well look at both sides. There's not likely to be any truth there, but one may have more hope of discerning truth by looking at things, than by refusing to do so.
- lotusmars 4y ago
  This in itself is Kremlin's propaganda 101. Kremlin's most effective propagandist media and influencers are never as blunt as "Putin is good". It's more like "we never know the truth". "One side says that, another says that", "we don't know who's credible". "Truth is somewhere in the middle". "Politicians are dirty everywhere". "Everything is propaganda". It's effectively the leutmotif of Russian media that aims to disorient and pacify domestic audience and they use it a lot on Western audience as well. A great example was their media strategy on MH17 downing. First they made sure their network of influencers spat out dozens of theories, no matter how contradicting or bizarre they are. "The plane was already filled with corpses". "Ukrainian jet fighter shot it down" (look up their military briefing on it, it's absolutely hilarious with disproportionally huge fake jet fighter pasted on a satellite image). "Spanish dispatcher saw it". "Ukrainian Buk shot it down". "There was no plane". Afterwards give airtime to all the theories by saying "we're not claiming it's truth, but sources say this". Make your head spin, make you doubt everything. With such overload you have no other option but to just tune out, turn it off. There is no truth. Any voice is propaganda. Peter Pomerantes had a great book "This Is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Reality"[1] on their tactics, a recommended read. [1] https://www.amazon.com/This-Not-Propaganda-Adventures-Against/dp/1541762118 https://www.amazon.com/This-Not-Propaganda-Adventures-Agains...
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    If you don't know that everything is propaganda, I think you're rather naive (and must have missed the first half of the war somehow.) Nobody's "informing" you out of the goodness of their heart. Capitalists and states own media because it benefits their interests and will tell you whatever is profitable for them.[1] You're still not addressing the fact that large portions of the city are still standing, as shown in the propagandists video. Trust me, I saw the large portions that were destroyed by Russia which in my view is terrorism and very sad, but you don't lend yourself any credibility bitching about the truth not being in the middle when it clearly is in this particular case. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model
avgcorrection 4y ago

Plese don't spread Russian propaganda. Graham Philips worked a token "pro-Putin Westerner" on RT and Zvezda, which is literally Russian army's TV channel. He's as shilly as it gets.

ImHereToVote 4y ago

Yeah, I guess all those ethnic Russians that live in Mariupol are all payed actors. And those concrete buildings that are all in actuality flattened. Elaborate actors, the whole lot.

lotusmars 4y ago
Yep, saying this as a Russian, Russian media will show you a small part of the city with a staged crowd carrying Russian flags and tell you it's the whole city. They've done it for years. It's a shame some people in the West are fooled by these cynical lies. For others reading it, just google areal videos of Mariupol from The Guardian or BBC. It's shocking how West allowed this to happen in 21st century.
- ziml77 4y ago
  What's a shame is that people are so distrustful of the news and government here that they think that anything that says the opposite of what they hear from those sources must be the actual truth.
  - guerrilla 4y ago
    It is a shame. It's some kind of good guy fallacy. Sometimes there just isn't one and everyone is lying to you about everything.
  - lotusmars 4y ago
    RT was actually grown by Kremlin as a brand that "tells truth your government wants to hide". Conspriacy theories and Oliver Stone interviews interspersed with footage of Kremlin-backed European extremists protesting and pepper-sprayed. Thank God, they lacked subtlety and were not suave enough to build this vision. Now they're taking a second shot at it by spinning off its reporters and affilates as "independent bloggers" Also Kremlin's psyops campaigns on social media are never as explicit as "Putin good". They're more like "while Russia is doing bad things in Ukraine, I am an American and I am ashamed of Iraq/treatment of black people/Arab Springs/NATO enlargement". The person writing sits in St. Petersburg suburbs, is paid $600 per month and takes a shuttle bus to his depressive town every night. But it's enough to spark a thread on Reddit.
5e92cb50239222b 4y ago
Easily. I wouldn't put it past Putin to bus in the crowd from Russia just for this specific occasion. They've been doing it for years, why not again? Just like they film Putin's meetups with "factory workers" or "wounded soldiers". If you follow the news for long enough, the faces of those "soldiers", "workers", and "miners" start repeating.
- lotusmars 4y ago
  Absolutely. They've been doing it a lot pre-war. When protests erupted and were crushed in Moscow and in major Russian cities Putin's media scrambled to show that "regular hard working people oppose gay rich Muscovite hipsters who sold their country". A hilarious example was when they even staged a "worker" from Uralvagonzavod (a major tank factory) before Putin who promised to "gather guys and show them"[1]. Of course PR director for the factory was a famous Putin's media manager Alexey Zharich. They staged tons of provocations at protests to film it and show on repeat on TV. RT and Russian state media used the same tactics after 2014 occupation. While staged and fake this propaganda works if you show it 24/7 on TV. We were shoved it down our throats for years and now they feed it to the West. [1] https://newtimes.ru/articles/detail/49031/ https://newtimes.ru/articles/detail/49031/

h2odragon 4y ago

All that's available form "official" sources is propaganda; might as well look at both sides. There's not likely to be any truth there, but one may have more hope of discerning truth by looking at things, than by refusing to do so.

lotusmars 4y ago
This in itself is Kremlin's propaganda 101. Kremlin's most effective propagandist media and influencers are never as blunt as "Putin is good". It's more like "we never know the truth". "One side says that, another says that", "we don't know who's credible". "Truth is somewhere in the middle". "Politicians are dirty everywhere". "Everything is propaganda". It's effectively the leutmotif of Russian media that aims to disorient and pacify domestic audience and they use it a lot on Western audience as well. A great example was their media strategy on MH17 downing. First they made sure their network of influencers spat out dozens of theories, no matter how contradicting or bizarre they are. "The plane was already filled with corpses". "Ukrainian jet fighter shot it down" (look up their military briefing on it, it's absolutely hilarious with disproportionally huge fake jet fighter pasted on a satellite image). "Spanish dispatcher saw it". "Ukrainian Buk shot it down". "There was no plane". Afterwards give airtime to all the theories by saying "we're not claiming it's truth, but sources say this". Make your head spin, make you doubt everything. With such overload you have no other option but to just tune out, turn it off. There is no truth. Any voice is propaganda. Peter Pomerantes had a great book "This Is Not Propaganda: Adventures in the War Against Reality"[1] on their tactics, a recommended read. [1] https://www.amazon.com/This-Not-Propaganda-Adventures-Against/dp/1541762118 https://www.amazon.com/This-Not-Propaganda-Adventures-Agains...
- guerrilla 4y ago
  If you don't know that everything is propaganda, I think you're rather naive (and must have missed the first half of the war somehow.) Nobody's "informing" you out of the goodness of their heart. Capitalists and states own media because it benefits their interests and will tell you whatever is profitable for them.[1] You're still not addressing the fact that large portions of the city are still standing, as shown in the propagandists video. Trust me, I saw the large portions that were destroyed by Russia which in my view is terrorism and very sad, but you don't lend yourself any credibility bitching about the truth not being in the middle when it clearly is in this particular case. 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda_model

avgcorrection 4y ago